Beverly Kim of Parachute and Wherewithall

WHYY

The daughter of Korean immigrants, Kim brings traditional Korean cuisine alongside her husband and business partner, Johnny Clark. Together, they have developed Parachute into a Michelin star award winning restaurant, additionally receiving a prestigious James Beard award for Best Chefs in the Great Lakes region.

Kim talks about her upbringing, her first restaurant jobs, and some of her favorite Korean ingredients, and much more. Kim is also a mother of three, and has started a foundation to help support mothers in the industry. Learn more about her at www.parachuterestaurant.com and www.wherewithallchi.com

Beverly Kim of Parachute and Wherewithall

Eli Kulp: [00:00:00] Hey CHEF Radio listeners. Before we get to the show, I got to tell you about this brand new sponsor. We have, I'm really excited to announce that singer equipment company is now a partner with the chef. A radio podcast singer has been around a long time. They are born here in Philadelphia. They have been a big part of the growth in the city for a very long time.

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What's up everybody. Uh, how are you today really excited for this show today marks one year since we started the podcast, since we launched it, it was in April, April 1st of 2020. I mean, last change, right, man. It seems like five years ago that we launched this thing and it's incredible. To think it's only been 12 months.

When you think about everything that has gone on this year, it has been an incredible year of challenges and just stress and discomfort and, you know, depression and, you know, just feeling overwhelmed at times, but not being able to do anything about it. America, I feel like we, for the first time in our, our, you know, modern life, we've, we've really felt what it's like to not have true freedom to do what we want all the time, anytime.

Um, we couldn't choose when we want to go to work. We couldn't choose, you know, how we're going to shop for groceries. We had to plan everything. You still have to plan everything. I always forget if I ever want to do something, make sure I sign up two weeks in advance because I always wait until about two days before.

And then I look and all the time slots are sold. A perfect example of that is this weekend when I thought, Oh, Saturday is such a beautiful day, let's go to the Morris Arboretum. Even that has time tickets. And it's just a giant outdoor park. So you know what, we're still not through it. Um, you know, we still have our responsibilities to, to help fight this thing, but man, Feels like a long year.

No doubt about it. And thinking back to how this started, it's an incredible sort of kismet moment, which is, you know, the, the name of our, our parent company, radio kismet, um, because you know, Christopher plant and I were just one day talking and he was showing me his new business that he had built with kismet co-work.

And we went into see the one here in, uh, spring garden section of Philly. And then he showed me the podcast studio. And after a couple of days after I saw that I reached out to Chris. I said, Hey Christopher, like, what do you think about doing a podcast about the food community in Philadelphia and, uh, and around the country.

And, you know, he was like, let's do it. And since then it's been, it's been really fantastic. I appreciate everybody's, you know, Support I've had over 36,000 downloads in one year. So way, way more than I anticipated. And it's been, it's been a fun ride, you know, kicking it off with Nick Elmi, uh, last year it was a great conversation.

And since then we've had some really dynamite conversations with, you know, Craig, the band, Marc Vetri Mike Solomonov joy about Dino. I mean, I'm just naming a few Jen Carroll. Um, man, it's been, it's been so great and you know, we're really excited about this. Uh, second year coming up, we have some new stuff coming out.

I guess new design work is going to be showing up as well as some new shirts. Uh, we're doing, we're getting in the merchant game. So we have some fun designs that, uh, I've been working on with the designer for the past a couple of months. And I'm excited to launch those. You'll see those on the website very soon.

Uh, you'll see them on social media, so get ready to buy some really fun. Uh, cool. T-shirts that these, I think they are, um, get on the email list if you're not, it is. It has all the information for you is just twice a month. It's really non-invasive and it's fun. We try to keep it light and bring you some really great information about what's going on.

So as far as today's podcast goes, we're talking to Beverly Kim, who is a chef and partner, uh, with her life partner. Uh, and they run a, uh, two restaurants in Chicago. One is parachute and one is wherewithal. Um, both of them, a little bit different, uh, but they do both share something in common, which is, you know, Beverly Kim's, uh, Korean heritage and how they intertwine that with their, uh, with their American cooking and their, you know, their own sort of repertoires.

Uh, the restaurants are fantastic. I mean, you can just look at, you know, you can look online and see what the reviews are. I haven't been the one time I was in Chicago, uh, most recently, which was like three years ago, they were out, I couldn't get there as for the James Beard awards. And of course people had just taken over that place, uh, for that, for that weekend.

So yeah, with cheer, she reached out to us and I thought that was really cool because you know, like, Hey, like, yeah, let's talk about Chicago. Let's see what's going on over there. Uh, it's not Philadelphia. Uh, they have different things going on and they have their own sort of issues and, uh, problems with COVID.

And you know, one thing that is very similar is, uh, the story about pivoting. And they've had to pivot really hard, no way have they had to pivot, but Beverly is a mom of three boys. Uh, you know, I think they're all under 10. So imagine doing that schoolwork, everything while trying to run these restaurants and only that, then she then as if she didn't have enough to do, she started a really great non-profit called the abundance setting, which is really going to be looking to help, you know, mothers in the industry, women who, uh, have children or want to have children and how to navigate that and also give them as much help as possible.

So there's some really great stuff and meaningful content in this podcast, looking forward to you guys, listening to it and always let me know. Put a review. It means a lot, right. Something I love to read them. And of course, if you want to suggest anybody always reach out to Instagram, directly to my account at Eli Kulp or at chef radio podcasts.

So, uh, let's get to the show as always. Thank you everybody for your support and, uh, enjoy, enjoy this one.

Everyone. Welcome back to the chef radio podcast. We have a wonderful chef today hailing from Chicago. Beverly Kim, how are you? Beverly Beverly is a chef entrepreneur, mother teacher volunteer. Uh, and what half of the wife and husband team behind two of Chicago's most acclaimed restaurants. She is the co-owner and chef of parachute.

The Korean-American restaurant awarded a one-star rating from the Michelin guide, as well as our newest restaurant wherewithal. Her cooking has been praised by the likes of Chicago Tribune eater and bought a petite Kim and her husband, Johnny Clark shared a 2019 James Beard award for best chef great Lake.

Yeah, you have three sons. You're a working mom and somehow you do somebody. You pulled that off. Okay. Since COVID Beverly founded the abundance setting, which is a nonprofit dedicated to supporting the advancement of working mothers in the culinary and hospitality industry to have sustainable careers in the quality of life at home.

And also your board member of the green city market. Beverly also serves on Chicago, public schools, culinary chef council, uh, which is a coalition of local chefs promote healthy and responsible eating among 355,000 students. So yeah, you're, you're busy and you're involved and I think that's great. I was just having a conversation with some chefs here in Philadelphia, you know, about the difference of getting involved as a chef versus sort of just staying in your lane and cooking food.

Right. You know, chefs, you know, we do have a platform like you have to be involved now, uh, in something it seems like, and it's hard to balance, you know, it's hard to balance your, your sort of creative part and the part that's really trying to make sure that you're serving great food and, and, you know, have great service.

And then all these other things that can kind of pull you out. How do you think you balance it and how do you, uh, sort of achieve success in that? 

Beverly Kim: [00:10:07] Well, couldn't do it by myself. Um, can, cannot do any of these things without a team. And first and foremost, my husband and partner in crime, he he's, uh, not a big one to be the face of anything.

He just likes to, uh, he just loves to cook, you know, and work with his hands. And he's very extremely talented. We both share our histories, both of us in cooking. But the, I guess the difference is that we, we have different skillsets. And so mine is definitely plays a lot of the organizational roles, sort of executive functioning stuff, you know, I do better at.

And so like staying on top of our calendar, staying on top of it does take, take some organization to make this all happen. Right. And the, and where he kind of thrives more on the creative part. So we're both chefs, but I have my palette and his path, he has his palette and together we bring this kind of cuisine.

Um, but you know, he's definitely like for me, it takes me maybe like two weeks to come up with a really good dish. It might take him two hours, like it's nominal, but like, I'm, I can, it's the same it's opposite. Like, it'll take him two weeks to come up with a P and L and it'll take me two hours to come up with a piano.

So we balanced each other. And so that's how we keep us in check, you know, and he I'll let him know if we're having problems with money and I'll let him know, like, and then he'll let me know, like, if the menu is too boring or like, we need to go in a different direction, you know, like he keeps it exciting.

So we, we have a really great, you know, combination. So I think for anybody, you, you need a team that uses their strengths. You know, we all have like similar like passions, but we have to use our strengths together to divide and conquer. 

Eli Kulp: [00:12:03] So let's talk about your husband real quick. Um, you know, you said as a team, you know, you kind of divide and conquer a little bit.

He actually interesting story, uh, that I was reading is that he went to Korea and trained under one of the better chefs in Korea. Is that right? 

Beverly Kim: [00:12:23] Yeah. He, uh, studied under EMG ho who was on the cover of food, art magazine back in 2015. And, um, so when he came back from Korea, he left his New York apartment and he was visiting his brother in Chicago, contemplating whether or not to move to Chicago and happened to open a CS magazine.

I happened to be in it. This is all serendipitous. And it was actually the first magazine I ever been in. And it was my first executive chef position at opera, which was the Chinese inspired restaurant. Yeah. And somehow I spoke through that magazine to him. He sent his resume to, uh, opera. And, uh, you know, I got resumes that I would always like, whatever, whatever, but his was like, Oh, San dong in Korea.

And I had just to stop. And then his name that John Clark, I was like, wait, like a, non-Korean wants to go to Korea to learn Korean food. Like, that was just so interesting to me and I had to meet him. So, and ever since then we met, it's been history, you know what I mean, history, it just took over. 

Eli Kulp: [00:13:32] Yeah. I think having to also, it must be great to, um, you know, sort of bring his experience of being in Korea and also your knowledge of growing up, uh, in a Korean household and bringing those two things together.

I mean, you guys have, you know, unfortunately I've never eaten at your place. Last time I was in Chicago, it was 2016 for the beard awards. And I didn't think part of advanced, but you guys were booked out. So I didn't even, I didn't even try it, but you know, the attention that you guys have received over the past few years in Chicago, when you really changed the game for, I guess, bringing true, authentic Korean food, and then mixing it with sort of maybe, you know, your, your own experiences at home, what was, what was sort of the aha moment?

You said, okay, I really got this or we got this and we're going to, it's obviously being accepted really 

Beverly Kim: [00:14:28] well. Oh yeah. It was really scary actually, um, to open a Korean American restaurant. Because previously I was told you can't do Korean food on its own, or it can't call it Korean. Like it's gotta be Asian fusion or it's gotta be mixed with Tai, or it's gotta be like somehow Korean wasn't Korean American, wasn't going to be appealing.

And so that, but in my heart, I just knew that this is the food that I love to eat. This is food that John likes to eat. And when we're excited about the food that we're cooking, it shows, uh, it just naturally, I CA I think it, it tastes better, you know, you can taste that like, um, authenticity of, you know, like I just like experience cooking and trying to be molded into something and then feeling like not fully myself.

And so this calling it Korean American, cause we also, you know, incorporate not just Korean flavors, but other flavors that we're inspired by. And, but in a way that sort of fits into this Korean flavor palette, you know, and it just, it just kind of like was like, okay, we calculate it. If we can average 42 covers a day, we can keep our doors open, which actually sounds kind of daunting.

I mean, there are days where it's less than 42, but, um, so when we first opened, we didn't. Didn't even have a reservation system. We had a $3 phone that we bought from the store, and then we had a yellow notepad in a list. And so once we figured out that people are waiting for about two to three hours for our food and the weekends, then we knew we had something when there was like this demand or pent up demand.

But until then I didn't, I was always scared and I was always on edge. 

Eli Kulp: [00:16:25] Yeah. It's funny. I'm kind of doing it all analog versus there's something nice about that, you know? And there's something so simple about it. Obviously. You don't know, you know, you can't gather all the data that you, at that point, you probably weren't even thinking about.

You're just getting the doors open. 

Beverly Kim: [00:16:42] Yeah. We're just trying to keep the doors up and keep our costs down and we'd be like, Nope, don't have room for our reservation system. We don't have room for more than a $3 phone. 

Eli Kulp: [00:16:52] How many seats is parachute? 

Beverly Kim: [00:16:54] So originally it was like 44. Somehow we were around 50 now.

Um, we, um, kind of gutted the office out and made one table there and um, yeah, it's, it's, it's a very intimate and there's like one long con communal table. So all of this is not good for COVID. This is all like, like kitchen restaurant. Everything is in 1500 square feet. Oh, wow. Yeah. Prep, everything. There's no prep downstairs.

Yeah. So 

Eli Kulp: [00:17:26] it's tight. But it's a good starter. You know, it get started restaurant sounds like, like a lot of people, you know, you have to go through this backward goat, you that don't have the big money behind them or the investors. And, you know, you sort of just, you know, gather anything you can and people and family and everybody to kind of chip in and, and, you know, it's, it's, it can grow from there.

So, so abundantly for that little sort of seedy plant. So good for you guys. So let's, I want to talk a little bit about like your background, like where you from like growing up, like. Did you grow up in Chicago? 

Beverly Kim: [00:18:06] Yep. I, so I grew up in downers Grove, Illinois suburb. Um, cause I remember when you couldn't call yourself a Chicago in, if you grew up in the suburbs, like that was not a cool thing, but I would say like half of my life was in Chicago because my parents went to the Korean church.

It was the oldest Korean church, like that was from the 1920s. Um, it basically took over a Jewish synagogue and turned it into, uh, like added Jesus at the end. Right. Like the window panes, like at Jesus and then the front was all those estimates again. Yeah. And I grew up there like literally half of my, like Friday, Saturday, Sunday we spent like at the church because that was the center of our Korean-American community.

Um, but I went to, uh, yeah, I grew up in downers Grove. My parents immigrated. Uh, my dad, um, was a doctor. He delivered babies and uh, fought in the war, Vietnam war. And then his friends were, got getting visas to us and he decided just on a whim to do what his friends were doing. So he applied to come here.

And so for a couple of years, he was here by himself, you know, just setting it up. And then my mom came after, um, in the sup like late sixties or early seventies and. Um, you know, they sort of like lived in this bubble of like, they brought Korean Korea from the 1950s and sixties, and they stayed in that 1950 sixties bubble for a very, very long time.

And that's how they raised us. And, um, you know, my mom would only cook Korean food and eventually she started cooking Korean and American food, like two meals, every meal. And she was, I know it was, it was always, she was always cooking or cleaning. I mean, always all day long. Um, and we had three refrigerators, one was for kimchis.

One was for like all the dried fish and one was our upstairs for all of our daily food. And, um, you know, I was the last of four daughters. Uh, we had no brothers. Um, my dad's intention was to have a son and that's why, 

Eli Kulp: [00:20:19] but that goes a lot. It happens a lot. Doesn't it. I'm trying to get a son and they get, keep getting 

Beverly Kim: [00:20:26] daughters, Saturdays.

Yeah. Yeah. He kept trying and the unfortunate thing in the Korean society, it's a woman's fault. Like you didn't try hard enough, you know, to get a son. So you're supposed to keep trying until you hit a son, whether that means having 12 kids and you have one son, I mean, it was just too much, but, um, yeah, I don't know.

It's a really sad story. My mom actually did get pregnant after me and she had a miscarriage. And I think that was like, she was like done. You're so overwhelmed, you know? And then my, um, yeah, and I just grew up here. I went to Kendall college. My first job was at the Ritz Carlton hotel in Chicago. That's how I got my first step.

And I sort of like never really, really left Chicago. I worked for many different shifts, Chicago. 

Eli Kulp: [00:21:14] We got, I mean, it sounds like you got a lot of different, um, you know, a lot in these big cities, you don't have to leave the city to get different, different mentors and cultures and styles of cooking. You know, that's one thing that's nice about, you know, Chicago, New York, San Francisco, for example, those, those are kind of the big three cities that have been, you know, we've been there for a long time and then have a very deep culinary culinary history.

What are some of your like first food memories that, that you remember like learning? Did you learn from your mom? Was she teaching this whole time? 

Beverly Kim: [00:21:58] Well, my first earliest memory, I feel like I remember being four years old and sitting in my mom's lap because I was the baby in Korean. They call it McNay and they kind of treat you like a baby.

You're like your baby more than. Yeah. And I just remember her feeding me a Monell, Joan, which is like, um, it's like a sweet and a spicy. Garlic STEM con Shaun. And I just, I just remember really enjoying her when she fed me, the morsel of the food was so delicious, like when she was hand feeding me. So I that's one of my earliest memories of food.

Um, I do remember being experimental, like in the kitchen and making a huge mess and all my sisters would complain. They would just like come. Cause I just loved, like, I dunno, know what I would throw it together. I would mix the craziest things together, but I just enjoyed, I don't know. Maybe I was just emulating what I saw, like my mom always in the kitchen.

And, um, I guess I always remember my mom's food with just being amazing and just delicious. I never, I have a sister and she hates that. I say this, but she like did it. Wasn't like she was not really, she always had to have pizza. We always had pizza in the fridge who just loved everything my mom made. And I always like requested things from her and like, you know, I would get excited about Curry day or like jotting on day or, um, and even my friends were jealous of my mom's cooking.

Like, you know, when they come to my house, there was always a pot of food. There's always two pots of soup or food always. And, and so like I grew up like food. It was like the center of our home and it was. We had a lot of, um, cultural, like misunderstandings in my family, a lot of tension due to Korean culture versus American culture, language barriers.

And I feel like the one thing that like can speak without barriers is the food. You know, it was comfort. It was, it was, it was just like, it just spoke to me, you know? Um, it brought me to, um, understanding what, even though my like Koreans, don't say, I love you as much as American parents say, I love you, but they don't say it.

They say it through their food and they say it through their, you know, they, they, they have a different way of showing it. 

Eli Kulp: [00:24:27] Yeah. I was a little jealous. So what, what were your, uh, what were your lunchboxes like going to school? They have people are jelly sandwiches. Did they have something stinky? I remember 

Beverly Kim: [00:24:41] one time I brought like candy, the anchovies to school in my lunch box.

And everyone was like horrified to like, what the hell is that? Get that away from me. 

Eli Kulp: [00:24:52] You're not, you're not trading that one for some chocolate milk. That's for sure. Yeah. 

Beverly Kim: [00:24:55] I'm not going to. Yeah, no, I remember that was distinctly not very popular. Um, my food was always healthier. I feel like my mom. Like she did do like tuna salad sandwiches and did, but it was always that extra touch that Koreans do.

I feel like they actually had an extra celery or something in there, or like, you know, like extra, like she'd throw raisins in there, you know, and she'd always cut the cross off and it was always really perfectly soft and perfectly cut, you know, all of like, she'd always like peel the Asian pear, like so perfectly, you know?

And, um, you know, he's just like the nest, he always had like a finesse to her food that she would pack. Yeah. But it was always like healthier, like, like let, like sandwich has always had more lettuce in it than my counter American counterparts. I was like, I just, and then I got made fun of like, like I have a cow's lunch or something, and I didn't know, but it's just the way that like, so I think growing up, I was enjoyed vegetables.

I always enjoyed crunch and texture. I was, it helped me. Yeah. It helped like texture and it helped me to be more open. My palette was more open to try new things because of the way I grew up, I feel. Yeah. So I think it really helped me become a better chef. 

Eli Kulp: [00:26:11] That's great. Yeah. We just had Hooni Kim on, uh, was it four episodes ago?

I think. And you know, he was talking about how, you know, going to school with food that was just, you know, not even, not even resembling anything else. Oh, my 

Beverly Kim: [00:26:27] gosh, I was embarrassed at some, you know, when you're a kid it's embarrassing, you know, to be different. Or at least when we grew up now it's more acceptable.

But like, I remember I was on the Palm squad in, in high school, believe it or not. And you know how cheerleader, but also the Palm squat is more like a dance. And I was like the, the token Asian, you know, like everyone else has like blonde hair, blue eyes. And I remember my friend would be like, she'd be like, have kimchi today.

Didn't, you

know, cause after a while everything does smell like kimchi, you know, it starts to permeate stuff, you know, and I was embarrassed, but I mean, that was who I was. Yeah, 

Eli Kulp: [00:27:14] that's it. Right. That's it. That's special. I mean, I'm sure you appreciate that, you know, looking back and you know, what that meant meant to you and that probably set you off on, uh, your culinary journey.

So when you graduated high school, you knew what you wanted to do. 

Beverly Kim: [00:27:31] Yeah. So when I was a junior in high school, my sister who's nine years older than me. She already, you know, live through, um, college and getting her first job. And she was actually more of a mentor for college. It for my job search my mom because my mom doesn't really have access.

She was always, uh, like, uh, a domestic, you know, a housewife, but you know, my sister, she was like, you know what you should think about. Being a chef or something. Cause you're always in the kitchen, you know, you make good food. And I was like, I don't even know where to start with that because a, my parents never went to fine dining restaurants.

We always ate at home. Be like, it's not a career that I even know very much or have network with, you know, because everybody wants to be a doctor or a lawyer, you know, in the Korean community. Right. Like those like white collar jobs. So back in the day, um, I was like, huh, maybe I should research on this.

And you know, this is the time before we had Google and everything. So it was like, imagine 1996, there was Barnes and noble. That was the one cool place. 

Eli Kulp: [00:28:38] You can see what chefs are. Yeah. 

Beverly Kim: [00:28:42] The books selection. They had this book, I was like the who's who of America and the Ginzburg directory. And I remember opening it and I bought that book and with the money that I made a basket Robbins or whatever I was doing.

And um, like I circled all the Chicago chefs and I called them and I wrote him a letter and one of the chefs wrote me back or call me back was, um, chef Sarah. And she said for Nan Gutierrez does long, no longer works here, but I can help answer your questions. He's actually still my mentor today. She's still the one.

Yeah. And I worked for her for many years or several times throughout my career, but she helped me get my foot in the door. And so my. Summer between junior year and senior year. I guess I spent it at the Ritz-Carlton hotel. I would take a train to a train to a bus, to train, you know, to get her there, but from the suburbs.

Um, but I was like loving this, like kind of like dance, you know, that I saw in the kitchen and sort of, so like this learning and education and like, by the end of the day, I was like, wow, time just was that really 10, like 10 hours. Oh, you know, just, you know, like I felt like I was so like, like, um, how could you just, just having fun, you know, I was just enjoying it and like, look, those beats like a pretty look, how pretty you can make the plate, you know?

And back then, you know, everyone, everything was like dots and perfect room. And like, it was such a, like a art to, you know, I, I never actually had Rosemary or time and she, she did this whole herb like here, try all these herbs, smell it. I want you to name it. You know? And then she's like, here trial is cheeses.

I want you to taste it and put it in the order of funkiest to the, the, not the mildest. Like, and I, she was kind of testing me for Glen and it was like, this is so much fun. And so that's how I fell in love with the industry. Um, And then, you know, like I went to Kendra college was, is a culinary school in Chicago.

Um, even though, and long story short, I did, I applied for CIA, but you needed a letter from your chef that you worked for. Um, and chef Sarah told me not to apply there because in her experience, the graduates from CIA would, they would drop off like flies realizing that they're just making minimum wage, like everybody else.

And she's like, there's going to be this really. Like, she just felt like they kind of over, like, I don't know, she just didn't want me to get disappointed to think that I was gonna make all this money when I'm going to start at the bottom. When I graduated from college, you're going 

Eli Kulp: [00:31:24] to have a 30 to $40,000 bill.

Beverly Kim: [00:31:30] And so she, she actually talked me out of going to see, um, and, uh, so I ended up going to Kendall college and I literally went, um, right after high school and the, but, um, even I did take like, like six months to try actually. I mean, my story, I guess, I, I like during that time, it was, I was, um, considering many different ways to do this.

My parents were actually, even though my dad's a doctor, he was having a financial kind of, um, very like a hardship time, like, um, cause his private practice was now like sort of open-ended, you know? Um, so. I was actually even, I had a military officer come to my house and even talk me through how I can go get a degree cooking in the military.

Oh, wow. 

Eli Kulp: [00:32:21] Yeah. Yeah. It's like a, as like an officer or, 

Beverly Kim: [00:32:27] you know, as a student, but also I would have to go through the army training, but then it would pay for my education. I mean, that's how, like I was at that point in my life, like I was the fourth daughter, they were, my parents were paying for two weddings, two colleges at that time.

And I come from a family that like, they were just, it just hit them that they felt like life was bad because they had girls like all, you know what I mean? And so I, I remember that moment feeling like, Oh, I also got into Northwestern and then my dad said, if you were my son, I would send you. But since you're my daughter, I don't think I'm going to send you.

And I know he totally regrets that, like he regretted saying that, cause it was a moment of like stress, like financial stress he was undergoing. But at the time. When you're 16 years old, all you want to do is rebel after that. And so my initial, like initial feeling was I w I was like, okay, well then fuck that.

I'm just going to get the hell out of here. And I'm going to go to Clara school. I'm going to get a job. So that's what I like. That was sort of like my, my thing. And then when I went to culinary school, I was hit another reality. I was like, wow, how they talk about women and joke about women? And it was like a whole nother world because I never experienced that.

And that made me also feel like, what the hell did I get myself into? Like, like I'm around very, almost like ignorance. Like the lack of respect for women. I saw it and it made me think, what did I just, even myself, what kind of creativity? I was second guessing myself, but then I tried other, like, I went to, uh, some classes at the community college and trying to get my credits in and stuff.

And then, and I was like, you know what? This is really boring. I'm falling asleep during this. I, then I realized, you know what? I just enjoy working with my hands. I enjoy, um, being creative. I enjoy like cooking. So I went back to it. It's like a drug it's like, even though it was, 

Eli Kulp: [00:34:32] I think certain people can, can aspire to do, you know, a lawyer doctor, which, you know, bowls.

Okay. You know, they're good. They're good. They're good careers. But. I mean, I do have, it is like once you get the bug in the kitchen, you know, it's hard, hard 

Beverly Kim: [00:34:51] to shake it. Yeah. I got the bug. I had the bug and I didn't realize that despite all those like feelings of challenges, I was going to go back to it.

Eli Kulp: [00:35:08] Everybody. We're gonna take a quick break. I got Amelia minutia right here in the studio with me. We're talking about their brand new store opening in Wayne and this coming month, Emilio, how this things, this thing sounds like a dream. What are people going to expect when they go and see this new store?

Emilio Mignucci: [00:35:24] It is, it's an evolution and a dream. Like my cousin is our visionary and he wanted to do not just our typical retail, you know it, but. There'll be a lot of action stations, a lot of areas where you will get sensory overload. So like picture going into a European market hall with individual stands where like in the front of the store, when you walk in as our element Tyree section, our wine bar where we'll have plates and want like really great organic and natural wine.

So we'll pour by the glass and great cheeses top of charcuterie. But then the back of the store is our Cucina section where you see the chef and the, the Roman pizza oven, and there'll be preparing different foods. We've got an open kitchen there. So you could sit at either of those areas and eat in and it gets served wine and craft.

Beers and cocktails, or you could take it out with you. There's also our prepared foods section, but we have a rotisserie section with our paninis and sandwiches. Everything using are the great ingredients that we source from all over the world. And the U S and of course the heart of what we do between those two areas is going to be our cheese and charcuterie resection with house-made Pat tase and charcuterie.

That'd be 

Eli Kulp: [00:36:38] really great. And I was like, this is a destination 

Emilio Mignucci: [00:36:40] place it's built to really excite the senses and the, get your mind thinking about utilizing really cool, different, unique ingredients. And we're going to show you how 

Eli Kulp: [00:36:51] to use it. This is the type of store where you go into buy one thing and you leave at 20.

Emilio Mignucci: [00:36:55] Yeah, let listen, don't go in with the expectation of getting one thing. And that's where you're going to set yourself up 

Eli Kulp: [00:37:01] for failure. So with the opening, when can people expect to get in there? So we're 

Emilio Mignucci: [00:37:05] going to solve open on the 9th of March. Another 12th will be the grand opening and what would just be kicking it off from then on right through the summer, having fun, doing some really cool stuff all year long.

Eli Kulp: [00:37:16] Awesome. Everybody. So again, check out their website, uh,  berta.com and you can find out all the information every out on the main line is listening. You're in for a real treat. Yeah, that'll be fun. All right, everybody back to the show.

So then after school, w what restaurants were sort of your key restaurants coming up through Chicago? 

Beverly Kim: [00:37:40] Well, when I graduated, I went back to the red. So there was not as many restaurants as there are now back in Chicago, back at the time. I mean, there was like, LeFon say, say Latika at the party, Carlos.

Mostly those were like French and there was Charlie Trotter's. I actually, you know, didn't really hear about him until like one of my classmates was like, check out these books and check out like how cool these books are. And I was like, Oh my God, this is so beautiful. And then, um, there was like a workshop there.

So I went and tried the workshop and I started like, wow, this, this is very like, this is impressive. This is kind of like, um, like, this is where I want to go, you know, because like, so I applied to her a couple of times and at the time getting to Charlie Trotter's was like, trying to get into like, I don't know, Harvard or something, the equivalent in the culinary.

It was, 

Eli Kulp: [00:38:32] it was the best at the time. Like even across the cost of Americans and stuff, that would be there. 

Beverly Kim: [00:38:38] He was, I mean, Oh, did you get to eat at Charlie Trotter's or, um, at the time, you know, like he, he was very ahead of his time, you know, in terms of like how he viewed food. So, yeah, I mean, he was one of the most influential chefs.

Um, but also, you know, there's like so many, it's not like, uh, there's, he's a very complex, um, person and, 

Eli Kulp: [00:39:05] uh, I mean he ran his kitchen, you know, militaristic and. Yeah, there was, there's very, very little room for, you know, anybody to sort of act outside that, you know, the perimeters of what he expected in the kitchen.

But, you know, I think, you know, you're, you and I are sort of a similar generation that we saw the sort of shift or, you know, where it was, you know, much more, you know, the stories that you hear, the horror stories you hear, um, you know, into what it is today, which, you know, is still taking work, but there's definitely a big difference when it comes to, you know, the, you know, the way women are treated or women in the kitchen, there's more and more meaning more women in the professional kitchen than there were, you know, 20 years ago.

Beverly Kim: [00:39:56] Yeah. I mean, I feel like when I was going up the ranks, I was one of the only one or two or three, and even it's so competitive. It's like the women that were in that kitchen were almost like competitive towards each other instead of like supportive because we were all vying for that attention. And, um, yeah, it was a, it was a difficult time.

And certainly I think, like, I think back about that experience very often, um, you know, on one hand, you know, you have, you can look at people in many different ways, you know, as artists, you know, like you could still celebrate that shell chef charter charter brought light Nouvelle cuisine, American cuisine, where.

He kind of like started using more olive oils versus butter, you know, and started using vegetable purees instead of, you know, butter, you know, and classical cuisine, you know, and started to ch you know, even bring kimchi in to certain dishes or like curries, or like elements of that to find dining, you know, paired with really expensive wines.

You know, it, it was like new at the time. Right. Um, but then, you know, there's other parts, you know, he can be also not, you know, there also is like when you're PA you know, when you're the key holder to everyone's career or like, it, you, you can feel like, like you don't even realize what you're doing. And I think, um, a lot of my experience there could have been very damaging to certain people, if not, didn't have the strength to understand it, or like strength to, to be okay with that and being okay with not agreeing with that, but still okay.

With still respecting him. Do you know what I mean? Like, 

Eli Kulp: [00:41:48] I hear you it's, it's, you know, it's puts, I can't imagine I'm a white male, so, you know, I can't speak for, for women in the kitchen, but I worked with some women in the kitchen and. Um, some of them were, you know, sort of my mentors in the kitchen. I learned, you know, one, one in particular, uh, Nina who worked at OCI on it.

She was the head cook. Like she was a fish, the fish cook it, like you didn't mess with her. And she came in and put her head down. You're lucky you even get a word out era, you know, and as I was going to buy an extra chip there, and I remember just being like in awe of this woman, you know, um, but the attitude was like, I don't give a fuck.

You know what I mean? Like her attitude and 

Beverly Kim: [00:42:34] we kind of had to play by the male's rules. You know, you had like a male, like you couldn't be, you couldn't play your game, like a female, you know what I mean? You had to fit in and have those kinds of characteristics. And frankly, the women that I was in that kitchen with, I, I actually think a lot about them sometimes time to time and just like moments where we were like that are not supportive of each other.

And, you know, um, and I wonder if it's more of the bigger systemic problem, not us. It was more of that pressure that was built on us that wasn't meant for us to collaborate or, you know, and I feel like there was this one woman who is in my, who was my senior, who was a phenomenal cook. She was, she, she did own that.

Like don't mess with her kind of attitude. And I was really like surprised when she. Ended up being his personal assistant, like moving his Jaguar, writing his memos. I was like, why isn't she moving up the hotline to becoming a sous chef? I'm just thinking about this woman that I work with. Like she should have.

But, um, I think about moments of making his fruit plate every day at one o'clock sharp. And at first it seemed like a teaching moment, but like after the seventh month I felt like it was more, it did more harm than good. It kinda made me feel like he didn't promote me to the hotline. I should have been promoted to the hotline.

But at that time, you know, or, you know, I felt like it was just more of a control thing. Like here I can control you and you say what I do, do what I say. And I started to resent it and hate it. Like I started to make crappy fruit plates on purpose. So he just relieve me of the duty of doing this one o'clock sharp fruit plate, no matter what.

And I almost felt like I actually was thinking about it and it made me mad the other day. I was like, what I think at first, when you think you're privileged and you're the chosen one to do this, but at the end, it's just some kind of like game to show you who's in charge. And it didn't really promote me.

And it didn't help me to move up the ladder. You know, I just kept running into like problems with it, you know? So I, I felt like that was a way of, I dunno, some weird control thing, you know, I don't know a lot of it is just, it's not it's, it's not right. I would never ask anyone to do that in my kitchen.

Just like a teaching moment. Yeah. Ego 

Eli Kulp: [00:45:15] thing, for sure. You know, I think you don't really see those types of chefs anymore, you know, where they were sort of best in class. Uh, they were dominating, you know, the food scene because there was only a handful of those, those types of restaurants or today you'll see that it's much more democratized.

Yeah. I'm sure there's chefs out there that have plenty of, there's plenty of big Eagles out there. Um, but you know, that sort of the chef that's like of the city, like this is the chef of the city, so to speak, um, I mean, you could say, you know, linear kind of is that, but they're even, you know, I don't think that culture is like that as well.

I don't grant is isn't like that, but you know, it's, it's gotten to a point now where, you know, there's a great food, no matter where you go at every level and you know, even, even, you know, mid-sized cities. Yeah. 

Beverly Kim: [00:46:09] No, I think it's like, there's so many great chefs who've come up who you can be both. You can be empathetic.

In fact, that shows you're more powerful. It shows you're more thoughtful, you know, it's, you know, I really do think that's possible and I'm glad that that's not the culture that most people had to deal with. I, I do think it's, it's a lot of people have gone through that, that kind of kitchen in order to grow their resumes and things like that.

But I feel like it did come with some scarring a little bit, you know, of, or just kind of like confusion. 

Eli Kulp: [00:46:48] You think that, you know, that, that experience there though. Um, and I'm kind of thinking, so like a two part question. Do you think that also, um, sort of made you a little bit more, um, resilient, uh, and then also, do you think that the next generation, because, you know, it was more of that empathic environment.

Now you have to be more aware of what we're doing and, you know, people aren't working hours, they aren't used to the time they put in. Do you think, you know, do you think that is going to harm or is it going to improve? Um, am I talking about like, you know, misogynistic and mental inequality, I'm just talking about sort of the, the toughness that 

Beverly Kim: [00:47:42] I think there is a certain level of tough love that you need to give as a.

Trainer or educator, or like, you know, it's kind of like coaching, you know, it's pushing, helping challenge someone to push themselves, right. To reach their full potential. I definitely think, you know, there's a fine line. We have to walk, you know, to do that. Right. Um, and then there's crossing that line, you know, which I think is a misogynistic part, like the kind of enjoying that, seeing someone's squirm because it's so uncomfortable or difficult, you know, I don't think that's, that's damaging.

Um, but I think tough love coming from a place of, I know you can do better. I know you can do this. You know, I, I do think like there's ways to do that. I remember chef Sarah, I had a horrible, or I don't know what I did, but I must have messed up service. Cause she took me outside in the alley, chef Sarah.

And she's like, I just want you to go home and think about how you're going to set up your station better tomorrow because the whole restaurant suffered because of you and you 

Eli Kulp: [00:48:55] I've had those, I've had those talks that's for sure. 

Beverly Kim: [00:48:57] Yeah. And I'm glad she did that because I want her to be upfront with me.

I want it to be challenged, to be faster and better and more organized and. No. So I, I actually, I took that to heart and I thought about it and I took my notes and I rearranged my station, you know, and try to like, yeah, it pushed me. And then the next day I was more focused. And, um, so I think that level of, I mean, I, I remember it being like such a difficult conversation.

I mean, she was like, I almost felt like she was gonna fire me. Like, that's how bad, like, like if like, it was almost like this feeling. If I kept doing this, I wouldn't have my job. And so that I needed to hear that, you know, but it wasn't like in any way I feel abusive or like, or misogynistic or, you know, any of those, like other, like other ways of communicating that I had seen, like in, um, so there are ways to do it, you know?

And, um, I'm still battling with that myself. Like how do I be straightforward with people and not beat around the Bush and just, um, tell them truly what they need to work out without them feeling like I'm attacking them personally, you know, making them better. I, 

Eli Kulp: [00:50:23] um, well you want, you know, a lot of times individuals don't, you know, they can't see their full potential.

And, you know, the experience as a chef, you're able to see that because you've been through it as well as, you know, you've, you've mentored or, you know, uh, supervise enough people to know, you know, who has what, right. Some of them you're like, Hey, you may maybe topped out your potential. You know what I mean?

But, you know, based on they're more attitude based than anything, once you just kind of right. They're here to work and you know, but there's ones that you're like, okay, I see the potential here and they're hungry for the knowledge they want. They want, they want my knowledge and respect, you know, sort of my background as a chef and, you know, they're, they're willing to listen.

Beverly Kim: [00:51:12] I think that's the main thing is that I think the new chefs coming up and the new generation, they just need to be humble. You know, if you take that ego aside, um, you can take really good feedback without feeling like it's hurting your ego. And I think a lot of people come in with egos who don't necessarily know you just graduated from  culinary school, white.

I had a graduate come and say, he doesn't do pastries that's for women. Oh yeah. I was like, okay, you're not

right. And a really bad attitude, like, um, you know, very surprising. He had a really good, you know, shadow or stock or whatever. And then, and then I was hearing some of the things coming out of his mouth. I was like, How, where is that? I didn't, I've never even heard of that before. Like desserts patient is only for women.

Um, yeah, humility, you know, I think, you know, I think the one thing that, that had going for me helped my career was just knowing that I could always be better 

Eli Kulp: [00:52:13] parachute restaurant. And now it's, what do you call it now? Mini parachute or

pivot. So let's talk about the beginning of it. Uh, as you guys started to create the food, uh, did you guys do a lot of R and D before, like you kind of knew what your opening menu is going to be, or was this something that organically sort of happened once you turned the gas on and started working? 

Beverly Kim: [00:52:43] It's a mixture of being a parent or what?

We never had time for R and D. It was just like, okay. Roll with it. And it's going on the menu. And, uh, um, we don't have like a research kitchen. We don't have any of that. The chaos almost helped push us somewhat chaotic. And like, so like nerve wracking, like, Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. When is, when are we gonna work on the menu?

You know? And it actually the opening for both restaurants. We didn't really talk about the menu until like, literally two weeks before opening, because we were more concerned about like how much money was going out to construction, you know, get into your licenses, you know? And it was so, and then, you know, on top of being a parent, like, um, you know, we gave a few things, a couple try and we had, um, a group of friends come in at eight, like eight of them.

And we cooked the, the first meal, uh, that like to get their feedback. And it was like the next day we were open. I know it sounds kinda crazy, but like, we literally that we don't, I don't know, like we couldn't, we only work well under pressure, so, 

Eli Kulp: [00:53:54] right, right. You do your best work at the end, right.

Procrastinate cram it. Right. I'm I'm bad at know personally. I'm not, I'm not good about doing, I know some of my best dishes have come in the moments where you're, you know, you try to put something on the menu as special or something and, you know, you're, you're scrambling and. Like some little, little magic happens.

You're like, Oh, wow. Okay. That's actually where some of them fail. I mean, don't get me wrong. 

Beverly Kim: [00:54:26] Yeah. Some fail. It's not ideal. I mean, it would be nice. I mean, it's always been our dream, like have a quiet space to just research and develop to stay ahead of the restaurant, you know? Cause like, you know, the more organized you are, the better you can manage teaching that or like training, you know?

Um, but I, I have to say, you know, that's how we kind of opened. It was a little chaotic. 

Eli Kulp: [00:54:51] You must have an idea that you're sort of blending these cultures together. 

Beverly Kim: [00:54:56] And we had an idea, okay. Something bop, you know, some kind of like hot pot situation or like, you know, we're always going to have some kind of pickles.

So like the format never changes with, which is our only like, you know, which is good. Cause you need structure, you know, like, okay, yeah. Some boxes, you know, and then, uh, and then we sorta change it. But like we've also had to adapt with every, every time labor changes, like in terms of. You know, we know that, you know, minimum wage needs to go up, right.

And restaurant industry is the highly, most effected, right. Are many prices are based on that minimum wage labor based on sub minimum wage labor. Don't, we've been for the past hundred years, you know, and making these changes is really amazing, but it does take a lot of creativity to keep up with the times and, you know, okay, well, you know, even thinking about like how we were taught, like how to make a sale in France, you know, like a French cooking, like you make a little bouquet garni, like, you know, just cutting out all those steps, like what are essential and sometimes like learning from other cultures and other cuisines you realize like, like Koreans make really great stocks and it's just meat, bones, just bones, or like a piece of meat.

You can make it taste better. Yeah. Throw in an onion and some garlic. And, but it's still, it tastes really good, you know? And so like learning how to like undo some of those, like trainings that like over complicate, like, and yeah, like I couldn't make this chicken stock and I'm going to roast the bones and I'm going to like, like add a smear pot.

And then I have to have the, you know, okay. Garney like this. And then I have a sachet of the peppercorns, but it can't be more than 15 or eight in ratio to this. And you're counting the peppercorns. Like, I don't think we can cook like that anymore, you know? And that's like, Being innovative, like putting lots of flavor into things using, um, Khombu water or like using, you know, um, maybe it is just onion and garlic instead of going through all those steps to get your sauce, you know?

So we're looking at ways to simplify, like, like I remember, like for example, if a chef Trotters, like 14 course menu, each dish took all day to make each dish, like I was on terrain station and it was like, you had all these things, beads and colors and like collages and then wrap it and Swiss chard and like, you know, with the goat cheese ice cream, and then like the caramelized pine nuts.

And then like the reduction that would take all day to make one dish, you know, and 

Eli Kulp: [00:57:38] 30 items, or have 30 

Beverly Kim: [00:57:40] items on it. We can't, I mean, labor wise, who can afford that right now, you know? Um, so we've learned how to assimilate to that, but still make it fun. Like, uh, think about food, like a parfait instead of thinking of every element on the dish, like a parfait.

So it's one parfait as a dish versus parfait everywhere. And then, so like if you can, each three item it's well thought out and developed in flavor, but it's just so simple, but together it just goes, wow, that's kind of like, to me more creative than. Doing all these things. I mean, of course that's going to be creative.

Eli Kulp: [00:58:19] Hello. I love that analogy because, you know, uh, there was this point in, in, you know, hope cuisine that, you know, the more ingredients you had on the plate, the more, you know, the fancier, it was the more you could sort of, uh, charge for it. But, you know, there's, there's this such a need for restaurant tours, be creative at how they structure their minions now, especially with COVID.

I mean, a lot of people, if everybody went back to basic to the basics, um, you know, the there's one, there's one, uh, I wanted to talk to you about kind of your, your most famous item on the parachute menu, the bread, the being bread, right? It is this like, almost like a terrain inside of bread. Like, I look at him like, what's that?

How the heck do they do that? 

Beverly Kim: [00:59:11] When we open the parachute, we're thinking about doing like a rotating, like Asian bread kind of menu. But so our opening dish was going to be like a take on being bread, honestly. Like that's where the creativity that comes from or like this. Cause I actually like wanted to explore what being bread was.

And so I made it at home a couple of times and. I was like, wow, this is really delicious. Especially the Eastern version. Well, texture to it. And then, but it was like, you know what, it's still, I don't think it's going to sell. I was like, well, what if we made it more like, approachable, like where people felt like they didn't know why, but they just love it.

You know, like some kind of connection to it. And, um, which brought me to like, okay, every, I love scallions because I'm Korean. Right. I grew up Korean American. I mean, they put scallions and everything. I mean, galleons and then, but like in American culture, I mean, at least calling American culture, but bare with me because I don't have better terms, but like Midwestern, you know, I was like, you know, I had this baked potato soup that was just blow my mind

Eli Kulp: [01:00:24] back in like early two thousands, 

Beverly Kim: [01:00:26] these thing, right. 2000 nineties. And exactly it was I'm Prairie. Grass is like soup of the day. And I remember, uh, yeah, Mark made a Janick and I was like, I don't know why this just connects me to Scalia in a way. I don't. I just really love that. I love that. Like. That Ross galleon on the top, like the richness on the bottom.

So, um, so I was thinking, do you think, like if, what if we put baked potato flavors, um, inside the bread, but like still keep it like how some Asian, like, you know, like roasted potatoes with Sesame oil, you know, um, we put Broadbent's, uh, bacon in it, which comes from Kentucky. We put on white cheddar, lots and lots of scallions so that we, we freshly cut that the day we break bacon, we wait till the last minute to cut it.

Cause that fresh onion flavor gives it a lot of flavor. And then we basically, uh, this technique is so dang labor-intensive, that is my goal is why is it a tea? Like who pays $20 for being bread? That's what we have to charge for it, money off of it. But because we basically roll it, like we have to hand feed it into balls, we roll into pizza, like, and then we put all the fillings in there, reroll it again, and then we roll it again, press it, then pan fry it and then par bake it and then finish it in the oven.

And the whole process like takes eight hours. It takes out eight hours a day to do like 60 being breads. 

Eli Kulp: [01:01:57] So well you guys, I mean, you're, you're kind of known for it, right?

Beverly Kim: [01:02:05] It's so labor intensive. I'm literally talking to someone to help me figure this out. He's like, he's telling me, you know, he's telling me that like, if I want to take this to consumer packaged goods, Um, most people only pay $7 for bread and daughter's not going to cut it. So I don't know. I got to figure something out.

Eli Kulp: [01:02:23] Oh God, it looks, it looks amazing. I mean, it has as well, like layers of potatoes in there, bacon right. 

Beverly Kim: [01:02:32] Bacon rendered bacon, and then, um, the white cheddar, the scallions, um, and then the Sesame seeds on top, it's kind of glaze of little soy glaze. Um, and then we brush it with the bacon fat that we render out of it.

Right. When it comes out and then serve with sour cream butter. And I don't, I wouldn't call it a bread. It's almost like addition itself, you know, it's kind of like pretty filling, 

Eli Kulp: [01:02:55] it reminds me of a pot pie, but it's not that wet. It reminds me of almost like a big to read or something, you know? 

Beverly Kim: [01:03:06] Yeah, yeah.

Like a baked potato. I don't know what to call it. It needs to have its own category 

Eli Kulp: [01:03:12] because yeah, it definitely does to figure it out. I'm looking at I'm like I see, as you know, everybody talks about it, you know, reading, reading about you guys more it's like the one thing they remember, 

Beverly Kim: [01:03:24] they don't remember like the really cool, like seafood dish that we made or like live, they talk about the bread and maybe that's what it is, is because people.

Sometimes when you, like, it's almost over stimulating to have all these flavors. And it's kind of like, especially with Korean American food, for some people, it's the first time they've ever had a Korean flavors before and fully aware of that, that, that to make it feel homey and comfortable inside is very important.

And so that's what they connect to

Eli Kulp: [01:04:00] everyone. Quick break talks about one of our great sponsors I couldn't do without them talking about one of the most. Ubiquitous pieces of equipment in modern kitchens today. Uh, they really don't need any introduction. A lot of people already know them. They have them in the homes. Talk about the Vitamix, a very prized blender.

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Uh, but did you know, they have a couple of really great alternatives as well, uh, than the standard Vitamix three, which is sort of the workhorse in kitchens. They have one called the XL and this thing is one and a half times larger than the typical Vitamix is belt-driven has gotten more burly motor. Uh, it, it can really just take care of large amounts of soup at a time.

Imagine doing, you know, three gallons in a matter of four or five minutes, uh, of any vinaigrette, soup sauce, whatever you want to do. This thing we'll do is a Vitamix XL. And then of course, Uh, maybe you have a coffee shop and open bar, something like that, that you, you want to do blended drinks in, but you don't want the noise of a typical Vitamix.

Cause they're they're loud. I mean, they got, they got some power, so they're loud. They have a quiet version. Acquire version is going to give you exactly what that quality puree that you're looking for from a Vitamix. And you're not gonna have to deal with the noise. So if you're interested in hearing more about one, I get ahold of our friend, Matt McKinney.

Uh, he can get you set up at the Drexel food lab. You can come up and see they'll do the demos for you and see how each machine might be, uh, applicable for your, for your restaurant, uh, or they can come and see you in the restaurant. So you have to worry about traveling. So get ahold of Matt. You can, uh, call him directly or text him.

Number is (215) 514-8310. Again, (215) 514-8310. He's a great guy. He's going to get back to you right away. Uh, tell them, uh, chef radio St. You,

what is the Korean culture? 

Beverly Kim: [01:06:16] Much of the, um, immigration in Chicago was done in the sixties and seventies, like sort of my dad's era when, um, after the Vietnam war, where I think like literally America was short on engineers, short on scientists, short on doctors. And so they offered these visas to, um, you know, Koreans and different Asian countries.

Like the history of like Asian immigration, they've sort of been the, one of the last people to be Latin let in, I guess. Um, and then slowly, my, my dad brought his grandma, brought his sister. So now my sister or his sister is a nurse, you know, but her husband fully educated, but there's nothing he can apply it to.

So they opened a dry cleaner, you know? So there was like this trend for like Koreans to open dry cleaners, even though like maybe in Korea, they, they were masters degrees, but they couldn't apply that here. So they created like businesses that were easy to kind of like enter into for like Korean community.

Actually, it's a very hard job to do like dry cleaning, but apparently it was lucrative enough, you know? And, um, that, so I remember eighties to nineties that was sort of the hype in Chicago with store to store Lawrence Avenue was Korea town and they actually called it soul drive. They, they had, yeah. And so it's Albany park, but especially Lawrence Avenue between like Palasky.

And let's say Tetsy was like back to back. Every store was Korean. Like you could get a pharmacy food restaurants, and it was an exciting time to be, I guess, Like growing up Korean American for me. Cause, um, you know, Oh, there was that, you know, I can go to any Korean restaurant. I mean, some of my best restaurant memories were done.

Korean restaurant memories were in that period. You know, there was Korean, if you had a Korean wedding, you went to Bondo restaurant, you know, if you wanted to, after church, you went to, uh, you know, Sheila, you know, but then they started to, you know, like a lot of immigrant populations as they got were acclimated, they moved to the suburbs because, because the pressure of living in a city, like the act, lack less access to good education, I know violence maybe and just, you know, space in general.

So I think like Koreans started to move out to the suburbs and you'll see. So now Lawrence Avenue is like a blend of many. It's like the most diverse neighborhood, like in the U S it's like one of the most diverse, um, you'll see some vestiges of the Koreans there, but it's not there. So I think it's very important for second generation people like myself.

Uh, first generation I was born here, but like second generation, meaning my parents were American, I'm American. So, um, it's important for me, for us to really celebrate Korean, um, cuisine, because actually a lot of these, my parents' generation restaurants are dying out. They're retiring. They actually depends on like, sort of like completing on that.

Generation. I think they're very few now, like off, like the ones that were in the height of the eighties and nineties are, are gone, um, with, with the exception of the few in the suburbs. So it, it 

Eli Kulp: [01:09:39] feels the Midwestern attitude, I guess. Um, you know, because, you know, think of Midwestern, you think of, you know, big hearty food meals, which I know is not, it doesn't, um, it's not for everybody, but you know, there's a diner there.

What was, what was sort of the reaction to parachute? Was it like, ah, this is something we needed, we didn't even know it, or is this, you know, was it, did it take a little bit people to get used to it? 

Beverly Kim: [01:10:09] You know, I was surprised, I think, um, you know, we had tried a tasting menu before parachute, which didn't work out.

Um, and I realized there's still this perceived value of what you can pay for Asian food or Asian inspired. So, um, which is an whole nother, probably podcast. But, um, but you know, knowing that we had to feel accessible, like everything about us was trying to break down the barriers of feeling elitist or anything like that because you combine, like people are still wrapping their heads around.

Like I can get that for $10 at Lawrence Avenue. Why should I pay double that here for that same dish or, and that's why. A, we never do traditional dishes. We always do a little spin on it because yeah, I don't want to take away business from Lawrence Avenue. Come on. Those are the places that you should go to and support, like this is my tape, this is my story of Korean-American.

And, um, I was scared honestly again, but I was amazed at the response from Chicago. I was kind of like you, I was like, Oh, Chicago wins there. You know, typically meat and potatoes. And you know, we're going to have like funky stuff on this menu. And, um, but I think we pulled it off, like, because it was still, you know, a little bit, um, just approachable enough and fun.

We made it really fun, like put on some really good music and it was kind of loud and boisterous. And, um, you know, that was sort of like at the beginning of the natural wine movement. So, you know, we were just having fun with all this like juicy wines and like cock, you know, we just try to make it really fun and make it more about the whole experience.

And actually some people didn't even know why they were there didn't even know what kind of cuisine they were having. It just kind of showed up. Yeah. And they're just like, this is awesome. You know, and I kind of, that was really awesome. Like I think it was just the food itself without. Having a label, but it was delicious.

Eli Kulp: [01:12:24] I mean, you got so much attention, well deserved and you know, you definitely a touch, touched a nerve, you know, with people and say, Hey, like, this is, this is something that's new and it's not being done anywhere else. And the fact that you are creating your husband is in love with Korean food. You know, that that story is there.

And being able to tell that story through your food is very powerful.

Um, let's see. So I was parachute was open till I was 14. And then 2019, what month did you open your new restaurant? Where with all? 

Beverly Kim: [01:13:05] Yeah. So, uh, Bowie was born may of 2019. We opened where Athol July, 2019. Okay. 

Eli Kulp: [01:13:18] Yeah. You didn't get through a full year before COVID 

Beverly Kim: [01:13:22] and all that. No, we were, we're really finally getting, hitting a stride and then COVID happened.

So that was really unfortunate. Yeah. 

Eli Kulp: [01:13:32] Now what is, um, real quick, what type of restaurant is this versus parachute? Like what, what do people, what would people expect in during normal times? Uh, you know, if they went to where a thought. 

Beverly Kim: [01:13:45] Yeah. So, um, unlike parachute where parachutes like an all a cart menu, I mean, you can opt for the, you know, like the set menu, which is a little bit more expensive, but it's all a cart.

So, um, it just lends itself a little bit more casual in that way. Um, this one is a little bit, because it's a fixed price menu. It was, it's really inspired by like those kind of bistros in France that kind of popped up that it's like really fun DOB store. Yeah. I mean, we've always wanted to open a new meal, obese drug, many people don't understand what a Neo bistro is, but it's like, um, okay, let's cook for you.

We have this preset menu. It's not going to be like super expensive, like tasting menu. It's a like four course menu. And then we throw in some surprises there to, to like, feel the value of it. But it's really like, you know, it's a set menu in one menu. Um, and so we wanted something that was a little bit more like intimate and in that way, cause like, instead of the communal tables, like it's still like tables close to each other, but they're, they're kind of like, no, one's really sitting at a communal table.

So, um, and then we wanted, uh, just like a little bit more, I guess, control over the food. Cause like with the LA carte menu, it was really difficult to manage sometimes labor. It was really difficult to manage. I dunno, like to put out the best product that we, I mean, 

Eli Kulp: [01:15:18] a lot of people, I mean, uh, during this period, I went to that, um, the ones that have like outdoor dining, so have comes to mind here in Philly where, you know, before all the cart, but, you know, I've worked in tasting menu, only restaurants, and there's a real benefit to it, uh, when it comes to labor, um, you know, especially like you have your seatings, you kind of get everybody in there for the first seating, get all the food out, you know, the second seat starts and the third seating and there is, there's something about it because, you know, the, for example, the first seating, if they get the, you know, apps or hot apps or garbage Shea gets hammered, everybody can go over there and work, you know, get them out of the weeds and then, you know, like kind of progresses to the kitchen and, you know, you know what you're going to sell.

Right. You know, the reservations you have and you know, what you're capable of and you buy that much food, you know, there's, there's a big cost savings to it. 

Beverly Kim: [01:16:18] Yeah. And I think like we were trying to, trying to think ahead, like, how do we put like our best food forward, but in food, um, knowing that like, we might have to streamline things, you know?

And when you have a really solid team, um, you can put out really great food and. Having the surprise element. I feel like also, like Americans might be ready for it. Cause there's so much choice in everything in the world. Like you almost get like choice overload into like really be able to like sit down and enjoy your meal and not have to focus on what you're going to order, but like just let the food come to you.

And then you can just focus on your experience. Um, but we, we do it in a way because we also wanted it not to be fussy again. I think we have to analyze the costs of it because we, I think that the $65, for course, we were almost like slightly undercharging, but you know, we're new. So we want to go under then over.

Eli Kulp: [01:17:10] Yeah. Yeah. I think especially in, you know, new restaurants, we're always trying to find the value point. Right. We're willing to pay. It's kind of a, it's a process, usually the first six, 12 months. You're you're kind of going through that process. 

Beverly Kim: [01:17:26] Yeah. And I think that like, we were finally getting a really good rhythm and then when COVID hit, it was kinda scary.

Like how w when it starts to really slow down. And like how this model also doesn't work when it's slow overall. I think, um, I, I love it because it's so the, if you were to define it as a, it's an ingredient based cuisine. So like where we're this ingredient like that we're really excited about takes us like, so we've had like pheasant with moly.

We've had, you know, a starter B uh, don't you, me radish broth. I mean, it's just all over the place, but, but it's, it's, it's also like, it's fun, but it's also like we wanted a kitchen that felt a little calmer, like, like intense, but calm. And we've upgraded a lot of our, like, we have a, um, Bonnie's a stove. Um, I think we were one of the only independent that has a bony game.

And then we got shipped from France because we wanted to invest in the engine of the car and not because what we learned from parachute. Cause we started from such a small budget. Like it was always like, everything was band-aided before it was band-aided, but we wanted this restaurant. We wanted to like, have it be like drive like a Ferrari, you know, like have all the finesse and the strength and um, in grace.

And then we have like, uh, we have two rationales. I mean, so we, we spend a lot of money on this 

Eli Kulp: [01:18:56] project. Um, but hopefully. 30 30,000, 40,000 a pop.

Beverly Kim: [01:19:06] It pays off because it presents like the precision of it and the precision cooking. And then, you know, it, it does like give you an ability to be more flexible with like, if you only have four staff sometimes like in the kitchen. Um, so I think it's, you know, um, I don't know how we're going to have to, if we have to add one more course on like coming back from COVID, but I mean, that's really our format right now.

So 

Eli Kulp: [01:19:32] what do you, what is it right now with COVID? How did you guys pivot that restaurant? 

Beverly Kim: [01:19:38] Okay. Yeah. So when we first did take out, like, I think just namesake wise, like parachute has more followers because it's older. So parachute was sort of like breaking, even make me making a little bit of money barely.

But then for every money dollar that we earn here, negative and we're worth all. And so it just didn't make sense to keep it open, but I didn't want to like give up on like wherewithal, you know, because we still had a presence, you know, in our community. So hooked up with my friend ed at community kitchen, um, and canteen, we started doing like, um, food meal relief, like in like once a week, then it was.

Working with other grand groups like Highroads kitchen and then, or like the initiative to be able to like, keep it going. You know what I mean? And then we turned into canteen model, which is a pay you can, it's kind of experimental, um, totally funded by the grant first and what we're realizing, um, for the cost of the program, that don't the people who pay it forward.

It, it pays for about a quarter to a third of more meals, but it's not like, um, it doesn't buy the full thing for, so it's like a program that needs to be supplemented with foundation money. You were like rent money, you know, um, it 

Eli Kulp: [01:20:58] is, it is a pay what you can model and that is in service to, is it a restaurant employees or is there anybody that 

Beverly Kim: [01:21:08] anybody, anybody restaurant and we see a lot of restaurant employees, we also see homeless.

We see, um, elderly who that screwed over on the pension or something. And they're living off of social security. I mean, it's literally so many people are in food insecurity and then a lot of people who are too embarrassed to realize that they are food insecure. So I think this is a model that helps, you know, at least if you put a couple bucks or two, you feel better than just taking food for some people who've never been half had to depend on public assistance before.

Eli Kulp: [01:21:43] No. Are you, are you also seeing people, um, you know, Sort of, like you said, pay it forward, uh, give more money so that it helps cover, uh, you know, somebody else's 

Beverly Kim: [01:21:54] meal. Yeah, definitely. Like I would say the ratio is about like $10 a donation. Um, and we like each month, like last month we probably covered a third of the month in terms of expenses.

Eli Kulp: [01:22:09] Okay. Okay. So you got creative. I actually got like pulled in grant money and everything to get it ready to go. And so I 

Beverly Kim: [01:22:18] don't know, like, I, I find that like having network and calling people up and just being curious, what they're doing, um, leads to collaborations, which lead to, you know, possibilities. I mean, I think we're all in this together.

We're all scared. We're all not knowing how to get through this. And, um, I was really fortunate to have a friend, um, ed, we talk a lot about like how to help the community. And, um, I was fortunate to like, You know, feel comfortable enough to reach out to him. And so I, I think there was opportunities, um, to do this.

I mean, there's a high roads grant that you can take to, if you promise to, to uphold like, um, equity standards and training, and then they help pay for it, pay for some free meals too. Yeah. 

Eli Kulp: [01:23:12] And for people that don't know high road restaurants, you should check it out because it is, um, I don't, I don't know exactly, you know, are the five Oh one C3.

I have no idea, but they're a group that is really doing some great work in helping restaurants sort of realize what they can do through, um, well, in this case, you know what you're doing, but also, uh, advocating for fair practice within the industry. Just basically making industry a little bit more, um, you know, equitable working on, you know, the sort of wage inequality between back those front of the house.

Um, you know, they're doing these models, um, that are, that are helping to kind of, um, I guess, clear the mud a little bit, you know, so you can see it a little bit better. There's still a lot of work to do with that, that area in our industry. But 

Beverly Kim: [01:24:09] definitely I think that, um, I highly recommend people to look into that.

Um, At first, it sounds like, Oh my gosh, I can't do that. But then the more you hear it, it's not, it's, it's really just taking some classes to, um, understand and undo some of their biases. So as people in leadership, then we're the people hiring people. We're the people who promote people. We do have that platform to help make change, to see more, um, people of color and people who have been impacted by oppression, systemically to Bryce, you know, and women and people who are, who have been overlooked, you know?

And, um, so I think it's a great program, as well as, you know, addressing sexual harassment traditionally in our like, Whoa, where'd that come in as big kind of like get you to understand and educate yourself on where the history of it comes from. Cause sometimes w we're we're not, we don't know, we don't have these conversations aware this is coming from.

And when we have, I think like morally, like we have to almost like we set right now. Um, but we need, I think restaurant owners need help with those templates, you know, because traditionally we learned where all of our, all of our math is based off of some minimum wage restaurant. 

Eli Kulp: [01:25:33] We inherited, we inherited a broken 

Beverly Kim: [01:25:34] system and it's like, Oh, it's too.

It's like, like a tsunami. You, can't not one person can. Do it alone, like in order to make change, it's going to take a lot of combined effort. 

Eli Kulp: [01:25:48] Yeah, for sure. I mean, just getting what I, what I've noticed. Um, cause we actually, uh, put together a sort of a group of restaurant owners here in Philly to kind of look at that and say, cause you know, nobody wants to stick their neck out and sort of do the 20% gratuity or, you know, tip included, whatever, however they want to do it.

But having enough people organized say, you know what, we're going to do it, you know, 20 people to 20 different restaurants are going to do it so that, you know, we can start getting that momentum. But I found that like, you know, the, the difficult part of it is that everybody's, everybody has different concerns, all the different restaurant groups and they also have different models.

So, you know, it might not work for you. It might work in a fine dining restaurant, but it might not work as much in a more casual restaurant, 20% or 10%, you know, what I've seen the most is, you know, saying, okay, that means a sliding scale, you know, depending on the style of restaurant with you're comfortable charging.

Um, but you know, it's, it's, it's definitely a long road stone. 

Beverly Kim: [01:26:56] I think it's going to be, it's going to take off it's it's definitely going to take a lot of like looking at these numbers in different hybrid models. Like I think like, um, as long as we have the goal to get there, I think we can get there, you know, it might not happen this year.

It might happen. In three or four years, but, you know, um, through like advocating for tax credits or advocating for like different ways, like employers can stay in business, which is the first thing, right. Almost like having this restaurant act house is super helpful so that we can, maybe the grants will help us support us to do the right thing moving forward.

Cause we're, we're negative anyways. So it's this negative end who face, um, you might as well help us to do the right thing, you know? And, um, I think, uh, yeah, there's a group of us in Chicago talking about this pretty deeply. Um, and we're all like looking at our numbers and like, Oh, I guess that's how it's gonna look.

We do this model. Like, you know, there's different ways to do it, raise your menu price or add, you know, just let them take their tips and then divide it from front and back. Or you could do a service charge. So there, it sort of depends on your state. And then what kind of restaurant you have, like how casual it is.

But I do think there's hybrid models that can work. Um, as long as we are all supportive of like why we're doing this because I think the why is going to push us. 

Eli Kulp: [01:28:24] Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah. I think the why is, you know, that for a couple of reasons we want, you know, we want the all employees to be valued. Uh, and, and receive their value, um, through compensation.

But we also want to see this, we want to get rid of this archaic system and somehow figure out a way to sort of move forward with restaurants that is fair and, you know, supports, you know, the entire sort of ecosystem of the restaurant. Yeah, 

Beverly Kim: [01:28:58] absolutely. 

Eli Kulp: [01:29:00] It's a big deal. Yeah. So, um, you, since COVID, um, you started a nonprofit, right.

So abundance setting, and I think it's a great, uh, you know, they have a great, uh, mission. Um, tell everybody about that. 

Beverly Kim: [01:29:21] Yeah. So actually the abundance setting is a nonprofit which supports the advancement of working mothers in the culinary and hospitality industry to have sustainable careers, as well as to have a quality of life at home.

And all those words were chosen very wisely because you, um, we have, we know that women are in this industry, but there's like 50% in entree level positions or like most like majority of them are in entree level positions. So in order to create like, like, you know, parody in. You know, like leadership roles, we need to help support women to advance.

And, um, the problem is like, if you want to choose to have a family, um, without the support systems, without having, you know, a reason to keep going there, it's just like this industry tells like, is pretty difficult to advance online. So it is the way it's 

Eli Kulp: [01:30:24] built is discriminatory the fact that, you know, kind of go up this, this ladder that, you know, um, you know, there's very, there's no support for, you know, maternity leave insurance is bad.

Typically if you get insurance through your, um, you know, there's, there's a lot of these, these, uh, say barriers that you would as a woman, if you're saying, Hey, I want to have a family and I want to have a career as a chef, you know, you'll see it all the time. Like, you know, so I mean, what you're doing is tremendous.

I don't think there's anything else like that out there. So 

Beverly Kim: [01:31:04] yeah, I mean, there has been traditionally like women groups out there and fighting for equality, but I think to specifically name the systemic issue around motherhood is very powerful because, um, there's more niche, um, advocacy that we need to do for the, for that per specific.

And again, it's like, you know, playing. If women were empowered, making all the decisions, would there be dig more like accessible daycares night cares like more affordable childcare? You know, we would make decisions so much differently, but the fact is we're our voices aren't represented and that keeps us, um, that keeps us ultimately so suppressed, you know?

Um, and I think like I've been thinking about it and thinking about it, we've talked about it. The me too movement, like helped me to really voice his concern. I think Amanda Clint wrote a really great article in eater in 2016. So this is not like, uh, it's it's, it was kind of like we're building up to this building up to this and the pandemic happens.

And then when I, my self was having problems, figuring out how to handle my two businesses. Plus then my childcare, it nearly broke me. I was almost broken. We closed our restaurants for two months in the, in the, um, summer seasons, like right after black lives matter. And then, you know, it was like all this like rage and anger about how the systems are built to, to keep people oppressed.

Right. And then if you think about it, women, black women, K moms on top of that, where those are the most vulnerable people in the population. So we need to listen to those voices and think about all those barriers to access. So I actually, it was formed out of like sort of the seed I've always had. But the pandemic with forcing me to close our restaurants out of mental health and everything, I needed something to create a positive path for me.

I needed to put my energy into something that wasn't like self-pity, or like I needed to put it towards something productive. And, and I think that's a beautiful thing about this pandemic, even though it's so ugly at the same time, like the death and the great, like all the debt and the, and the increase in poverty and all the sames.

But what has realized is that our systems are the reason why our systems are built this way. Uh, women have lost we're back to the 1980s level of employment, um, women in general. But when you look at it, it's because of the zoom schoolings because of the childcare situations. And so it has a hundred percent to do with motherhood too.

You know, like a lot of those lost jobs where, because he's, the mothers didn't have support and 

Eli Kulp: [01:33:59] they can't afford, you know, daycare, they can't afford childcare home. So what are they going to do? You know? 

Beverly Kim: [01:34:06] Exactly. And then on top of that, like that our industry, we work at night, we work weekends, right? When we don't have typical, like.

You know, so now these people who didn't really understand what it's like to be us are kind of in the same boat. We're kind of like, how does it feel like to not have support or money for support? That's how a mom and culinary has always felt because we like, I couldn't, I was always in the mindset. Like I'm just investing in my future, but it's not fair when I'm putting, you know, 40% of my income just to childcare.

Sure. That's the childcare alone, 40% of my income. How do you ever 

Eli Kulp: [01:34:47] get ahead? 

Beverly Kim: [01:34:49] The restaurant make more than me after you take off the childcare part. You know, it, they, they really do make more, more money than me. And, um, but I am investing in my future. Right. So I see it as an investment, but like I, so I feel very privileged, but I, I think most without my mentorship, without that support, without like my dad helping me open my restaurant, I don't think I would be here.

I would have given up, I would have changed careers. And that's what most women do. They just change the careers. Like at certain point they realized this isn't going to work for them. And it's a shame because they've invested all this time and they should be a leader. They should be getting paid more.

And, um, So, yeah, it's sort of born out of that and like how we can help these moms. So we sort of started with a meal relief program. It's grown into like connecting with women on zoom panels to just like, talk about these issues. And so, um, there's a lot of work to be done. And in this, in this space, it's sort of never ending, but we hope to just be that like, point, if you need to get the information or the data or why this is important, you can just look at, go on our website and you can understand, like, there's going to be some information about that or night care resources, or, you know, stuff like stuff you wouldn't have access to.

That's really pointed to support moms and yeah. 

Eli Kulp: [01:36:15] How can people get involved? How can people, um, you know, looking up to Zurich to your parachute website, or do you have some setup? 

Beverly Kim: [01:36:23] We have a abundance setting.org website and it is a five Oh one C3. I don't know how the heck we got it pass through. The system was quick.

Um, cause we were lucky. Um, and so any contributions are tax deductible. If you go through our donate button, it will spit out a receipt for you. Um, that's tax deductible. Um, donations are great if you're, if you are a chef listening to this and you want to be part of this movement, whether you want to be a mentor, please sign up and help us be a mentor.

We've we've partnered with James Beard foundation. So if you need, if you need or want support on being a mom or even a parent, a dad, and you want to talk to a mom, right? So you want to get some of these resources from the abundance study. You just have to go to the James Beard. It's also on our website and then look for a mentor and then put the tag of the abundance settings.

So what I would love is to see more mentors on that list, just because I think there is such a, there's so many, uh, we just did this, a zoom panel, like with fab and there's like, I still have like 10 more women that I need to set up with another mentor. And even in my network, I'm sort of tapped out now, like, there's, I need more mentors for these women just to check in with them and sort of help answer their questions.

Um, yeah, I know we've got really great risk. There's a lot of, um, people who need help and then we have a meal relief application in Chicago, but, um, I, I'm going to talk to Mary Sue Milliken, like after we get off this call, because I'm interested in how we can like sustain, probably like increase the network, like to feed moms and Philly to feed moms in New York feed moms.

This is a national problem that single moms hit hard, hit hard, the hardest, right. We need to support single moms, moms of color, you know, um, Just help support these moms who have to be able to provide for their families, you know, and to, to create a pathway for their dreams. You know, they deserve the dream as much as we do.

And they, um, we need to be order B, uh, because they don't have, you know, systems in place by our government like healthcare or, you know, paid leave or just protect, you know, we, we still are in fear of like losing our jobs. If we find out we were having a child or, you know, we, we don't have much security, you know, so the meal relief program helps connect these moms to chef mentors and then also get time relief, quality of life back.

Um, and you know, like there's so much to be said about food coming from education, coming from a chef supports, you know, farmers. And so part of that is we also make sure that like some part of your meal is coming from a local farmer cause that's part of the conversation. So it's sort of like, I would love to see this grow as a movement because women feel empowered, you know, getting support by the chefs and then we can have conversations of how we can collate as a community.

Cause alone, it's very hard to difficult to pay for health care for your staff, or it's very difficult to pay for paid leave for your staff. And it's going to take a very long time for the government to. I don't know if that will ever happen. Right? Like we hope for that, but we can advocate for it, but what can we do in the meantime?

I mean, we can't wait. I think it's about like, not feeling sorry for yourself, but asking ourselves, what can we do? And it's a movement where men alike, men, men need this as much as we do. I feel like men, part of not having the support systems is then traditionally men have had wage higher wages. And so then they feel, it only makes sense for the males to like, be the breadwinners, you know?

So it's systemic, it's so systemic. But if we had more support, I feel like men would feel comfortable letting a woman maybe lead in that position. My husband did stay at home for a year and a half while I was chef to cuisine and working 11 to 11 and went on top chef and all that stuff. And, and that was a lot of work for him.

And that was a lot of sacrifice for him, but he did it because he knew that that was my dream. Well, good for him. Yeah, no, he's a great father and husband and partner. Well, listen, I 

Eli Kulp: [01:40:53] think we talked about this the other day, but you know, there's a job in the restaurant that a woman can't do as well as, or better than a guy.

Um, it is, it's a very, um, Even playing field. In that sense, you just look at the, the brass tacks of it, um, you know, and say, okay, can she make, uh, a potato puree as good as the other, like a man, of course, can she make a stock as good as men? Of course, you know, can she pick up a 50 pound bag of onions? Yes, of course.

You know, like there's, there's, there's literally nothing that I can think of that requires you to be, uh, you know, to have, uh, the male genitalia, the female genitalia. It's like what it is. And I know for a fact having a good ratio of male, female, um, cooks and also leaders in the kitchen makes a far better kitchen than having, um, you know, one that is, you know, all made and only a handful of women.

So we seek them out. I mean, you know, we, we really try to promote that with our, our kitchens, you know, you can't always pick and choose who's going to work for you, but you know, our best. 

Beverly Kim: [01:42:19] Yeah, no, I think, I mean, that's all we can do. And slowly, surely we'll change that needle from 6% lead women's chefs in independent restaurants to hopefully better 6% is pretty unacceptable number for me.

Eli Kulp: [01:42:31] Oh, wow. That's really well, this is, this has been great. Um, Giving to add to the, to the, the podcast. Anything you want to, 

Beverly Kim: [01:42:45] I really want to thank you for, you know, talking with me. It's been such a, it's cathartic, it's therapeutic to talk to you and just thanks for supporting, um, telling, sharing stories. And I know like, 

Eli Kulp: [01:43:01] um, 

Beverly Kim: [01:43:03] I think there's this like traditional feeling.

Like I don't want to share my story. I don't want to feel like it's a pity party or anything like that. Uh, I think like us chefs, we, we have always felt like we have to look strong, right. And COVID sort of broke a lot of those barriers down and we realized we are a vulnerable, vulnerable group, men and women.

We are vulnerable to, to how this COVID has shocking us all up, like with anxiety and, you know, like uncertainty. And I'm just really appreciate, um, the strength and the bravery to like that you're doing to help connect chefs and talk their, talk about their stories and, you know, and, and, uh, like this is important, um, because ultimately we're not alone and I've seen too many, um, chefs along my career, even.

Impacted with mental health issues and, and, um, you know, this is a very difficult field, a very difficult, challenging, I don't know any other field that requires this much thought and pivoting and all these things that no, we 

Eli Kulp: [01:44:18] definitely got the short end of the stick when it came to this, this pandemic there's industries that are there, there were complete disrupted.

Yeah. What 

Beverly Kim: [01:44:26] about you? Doesn't it feel like every week it's something new. Like you have to reinvent something. Yeah, no 

Eli Kulp: [01:44:32] doubt. I mean, there was, you know, you, it wasn't, you know, do one thing and then stick it out. It was, it still is like, you know, the way people involved right. With okay. You know, around, I think rather than summertime people started thinking about, okay, how can I get into a different market?

Right. So cooking food and sell it, pre-sell it into suburb, you know, reach your restaurant. It's like those types of things where, you know, it's amazing what kind of came out of it. Like you would never have thought in a million years, like you'd be promoting, take out food.

Beverly Kim: [01:45:10] Yeah. No, it's amazing at how resilient everyone is and resilience is important and telling our stories are important. I think more now than ever before, especially to the general public, because we need their support hand in hand. To help us achieve our goals of changing for the better and still can, you know, like, uh, I don't know about you, but like, um, why I'm a chef.

It excites me to, to improve right myself all the time, the challenge to be improved. So I think as an industry, the status quo is not acceptable. We have to constantly like keep improving.

Eli Kulp: [01:48:10] We're gonna do our 11 questions session. So here we go. Uh, the most important ingredient in your kitchen, 

Beverly Kim: [01:48:17] I think fish sauce is a really hard one to make. That's a very unique flavor, you know, like not every dish has fish sauce, but it's like the only thing closest to fish sauce. If you want to go vegetarian, I feel is white soy white soy has very similar like umami qualities.

I usually, so I would say like, I don't know, fish sauce is a very essential one. If you want to get a certain kind of flavor. Right? Yeah. 

Eli Kulp: [01:48:44] That's great. Now, if I'm not mistaken there is it also like creative person though, right? A, but there's also, um, 

Beverly Kim: [01:48:53] yeah, I feel like every Asian country has our, not every, but like at least like several of them have their own like preferred style of, um, my mom actually likes the via Denise brand.

The one with the three crabs. Yeah. Yeah. So, but there, yeah, there's lighter, darker, richer funkier ones. It depends on how, what direction you want, if you want to be delicate or you want it to be kind of like bold. 

Eli Kulp: [01:49:19] Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. I haven't really got into a, to know that many fish sauce. I have three crabs at my house, you know, it does the trick.

Beverly Kim: [01:49:27] Yeah. It's more of a delicate one. Like nice, 

Eli Kulp: [01:49:32] best thing about, uh, running a restaurant in Chicago, 

Beverly Kim: [01:49:35] Chicago is a great food community. Um, we rely on food for entertainment for so many reasons because we had this really like challenging winter. And I think the food is what excites us as a community. And it helps build bridges and tell, um, bring people from different backgrounds together.

Um, yeah, I would say like Chicago, top three things are tourism has gotta be food. And so I, I'm very appreciative of a city that can support so much talent. Cause without like having a city that wants to go out to eat and spend their money and like 

Eli Kulp: [01:50:16] people love to eat. 

Beverly Kim: [01:50:18] They do. Yeah. They love to eat Chicago.

It's important. Yeah. So I really, I think this is a great food city. 

Eli Kulp: [01:50:26] Um, all right. Worst thing about, um, where the restaurant in Chicago. 

Beverly Kim: [01:50:35] So, um, it's kind of a flat city, so like whenever there's a flood or like it's too much raining, it definitely backs up the sewage. So have you guys had to like clean sewage, but that's definitely a threat that I've often had to maybe a couple of times how to call up my insurance company to help cover the cost because like cleaning, pairing, and, um, it's scary.

And um, every time it rains a lot, I get really of 

Eli Kulp: [01:51:03] restaurants 

Beverly Kim: [01:51:06] yeah. In Chicago. Yeah. Because we're flat. And so like when the water, like, if it's so much water comes down at once, then our water systems get logged and then it inevitably like hits the sewage somehow. And then it gets into 

Eli Kulp: [01:51:22] the worst. We had that problem in our New York restaurant.

We're close to the, uh, uh, the river, the way the water table is there. We have so many issues with it. 

Beverly Kim: [01:51:32] It is kind of lower. Right. New York is more 

Eli Kulp: [01:51:34] water table. We're near the river. So. It makes it a little bit more difficult. All right. Best Chicago sandwich. 

Beverly Kim: [01:51:43] Is it telling him beef with a Jew? Did it? I think that's really great with like, um, I I'm a big fan of giardiniera on anything.

Eli Kulp: [01:51:52] You just put the Jordan you're on it 

Beverly Kim: [01:51:54] thing. Yeah. Or in an era on anything Chicago, so Italian and Polish sausage. Yeah. I put giardiniera 

Eli Kulp: [01:52:04] all right. East coast pizza, Chicago style. 

Beverly Kim: [01:52:07] So like, I guess when you think of Chicago-style I was like deep dish. I used to love that when I was a kid, but then I think it was adult.

I liked the more thin, 

Eli Kulp: [01:52:15] uh, your favorite place to go and just chill out in Chicago. 

Beverly Kim: [01:52:19] Any like Chicago has a bunch of little parks. I'm just a big park fan. Yeah. Getting fresh air and, and then let the kids kind of roam around free. And then I, you know, I get a lot of guilt as much as I can. I need my own time.

Like we hardly do it because then we don't have like tons of family time. So it is love. My favorite days are just my days off where we can take all the kids to the park and just play in fresh air. 

Eli Kulp: [01:52:48] Your favorite kitchen tool 

Beverly Kim: [01:52:51] mandolin, or like a microplane. 

Eli Kulp: [01:52:54] But 

Beverly Kim: [01:52:56] yeah, those are great. I mean, you can just great anything and then it's great for zest and powers on cheese.

Yeah, 

Eli Kulp: [01:53:04] for sure. Yeah, mandolin are great. And they're also great for, uh, taking half your thumb off. So

that's pretty 

Beverly Kim: [01:53:15] dangerous 

Eli Kulp: [01:53:16] things. A few times, best thing about Chicago, when it comes to ingredients, like what you're able to get there, 

Beverly Kim: [01:53:28] we're actually known for ramps because, uh, it's actually stinky onion. Chicago translates into stinky onion and they believe it's some ramps. So we have some of the best ramps, like in springtime 

Eli Kulp: [01:53:40] that really Chicago 

Beverly Kim: [01:53:43] translates into stinky onion.

Yeah. It was kind of like a swamp land, you know, um, marshland and lots of like ramps were bro-ing around apparently. So I get really excited about ramps and, and like, we have a very active farmer's markets, uh, like I'm part of the green city market. So one of the oldest ones, but, um, we get, um, you know, a lot of our farmers come from whether it's just right over the border to Wisconsin or like central Illinois or Michigan, and each terroir is a little bit different or Indiana, the Michigan like that, you just drive like 45 minutes or two hours North to Michigan.

They have this like a fruit belt there. So we have the best fruit, like from the Michigan belt, um, that comes to Chicago. Um, Like one of my favorite farmers is, um, inclu farm. Um, they just have like the sweetest, like super, super sweet, um, berries and, um, everything, the gamut from apples. And then in the spring time, you know, they grow, I get really excited about rhubarbs and strawberries and then berries and then grapes.

And, um, I'm trying to get them to grow persimmons. Cause I would love to see that. Yeah. I mean, we get great fruit. It has, it's a four seasons, um, city. So, you know, we get really great, like, um, lettuce. I feel like our lettuce is really good squash and sweet potatoes and pumpkins and nuts like pecans, um, chestnuts grow here.

Um, we have a quiet, like we have variety of, of stuff and even like interesting stuff like, um, you know, Perilla leaves or like, you know, um, people are growing Chinese broccoli, you know, here and people as well and like bok choy. All 

Eli Kulp: [01:55:41] right. Best Korean restaurant or your favorite Korean restaurant. That's not yours in Chicago.

Beverly Kim: [01:55:46] It's an Oak. It's really good, but there's been some really, there's a couple of really awesome restaurants that I actually have yet not to not to try. I am beating myself up because I should have gone or I should go. And this is making me click. Yes, there's I there's John, John. Um, you should check that out.

Um, David Park, um, is a chef and he does like high, like a little bit more high-end tasting menu, Korean inspired. Very, very, um, very nice, a great person. Um, the food looks amazing. It has had a lot of good, um, review. And then I guess there's another restaurant. Um, it's like Korean barbecue, but like, it's like a, more like a second-generation it's called Perilla.

So I've heard a lot of good things about Perla. Um, so those are two really good, outstanding Korean chefs. You should definitely check out when you're in Chicago. 

Eli Kulp: [01:56:43] All right. Last question. If you could eat a meal with anyone, pastor, president, who would 

Beverly Kim: [01:56:48] it be? I always been a huge fan of, um, Maya Angelou, um, who is a poet and an activist.

Um, ironically, the day she died was when Chicago Tribune wrote about parachute opening. So like on the front page, you could see like me and then there's my Angela. And I was like, wow. I, because when I was a young girl, I memorized it. I don't have it memorized. Now is her poem called phenomenal woman. And she, her poetry, I love poetry.

It's about finding beauty inside here and finding confidence in yourself. And, you know, she overcame a lot of abuse and oppression. And I just think that she is a wise woman and I would love, I wish I had an opportunity to ask her, you know, so many questions about the world that we live in today and like what I should be doing to help.

Eli Kulp: [01:57:48] Well, Lisa, this has been awesome. I can't wait to share, you know, what we've talked about, you know, amplifying women's voices and ensuring that, you know, they do have a place, um, you add the table and this industry is getting better because of it. No doubt about it. I really believe that. And you know, the more, you know, what you're doing with.

No working moms, uh, with the abundance setting is, is something that is, I think, very needed because it is a major barrier for women. It's hard to say that it's not fair because part of it's genetics, you know, women play a role and, you know, people have families. And, you know, the only thing that you know is more important than, you know, women like yourself doing these, also the men to support the women.

You have a great man in your life to do that. And you know, more men need to be more vocal about it, um, to really sort of, you know, coming from the man's side to another man, you know, it could potentially hold more weight and chefs need to be mentors to their, to their, um, their pupils, uh, to make sure that they know that there is an expectation now that that maybe wasn't a place or was it, uh, showed as examples.

In the past, so good for you. 

Beverly Kim: [01:59:25] Thank you. Yeah. And thanks for being an advocate for us as well.

Eli Kulp: [01:59:33] Thanks for listening to the chef radio podcast. If you'd like to support the show, please leave us a review. Wherever you listen to your podcast, it helps others find the show and allows us to continue to make great content. The chef radio podcast is produced by radio kismet post-production and sound designed by studio D podcast production.

And I am your host, Eli called.