Nick Kennedy of Suraya

Host Eli Kulp sits down with Nick Kennedy, chef and co-owner of several Philadelphia restaurants including Suraya, Pizzeria Beddia, R&D Cocktail Bar, and Condesa.

Nick describes his authentic training in Italian and Lebanese cuisine has inspired his current restaurant ventures, his memories of working alongside Eli in New York City, and how to keep restaurants afloat in the era of Covid-19.

Transcript:

Nick Kennedy Of Suraya

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Hey everyone. Welcome back to the chef radio podcast. I'm Eli Colt. Thank you for joining us today. We haven't been just a really talented chef on board today that we're going to be talking with just a different world out there when it comes to how cooks train and become chefs. You've heard me probably say this before, but, you know, I come from a generation of chefs that we saw the old school, but we also entered the new sort of way that, you know, the expectations that are put on restaurants when it comes to professionalism and, you know, decency and just common, common, you know, good behavior and kindness that we need to start, you know, really putting into our industry and, you know, Nick and I, you know, we, we worked together a little bit and you know, when I first met Nick, he was hired as a sous chef at Del Posto, uh, in New York city, the post, what, the time.

And it still was, it actually just got sold, like. They announced that this week, uh, to some former employees, which was fantastic working at Del Posto during that time when we were pushing for a really a four-star review by the New York times, which is the highest level you can achieve and had never been really done other than one restaurant, like years ago in New York city, uh, most of the four-star restaurants were French based.

This was Italian. So how do you, how do you elevate Italian food to a level that is, uh, almost precious, but without losing the identity of Italian food, which is really cooked from the soul really cooked from, you know, the grandmother passed out recipes and generational, and it really almost developed on peasant style cooking, but how do you elevate that into a four-star dining experience?

So we were there during that time and it was a really, really amazing time to be there and seeing everyone pushing really hard. Now, you know, Del Posto, wasn't your normal New York city kitchen. This was a large, almost comically oversized kitchen with more equipment and space than you probably need. Nick started to make an impact.

Uh, as soon as he got there, you know, we were standing shoulder to shoulder almost every night, Nick and I developed a respect for each other. As we worked constantly to elevate the food at Del Posto, as you'll hear me say on the podcast, Nick is absolute technician in the kitchen. His skill and repertoire has always impressed me.

His pedigree as a chef is inviable. He's a perfect example of a cook who intentionally built their repertoire by working for no one, but the best. And he really paid his dues in the kitchen. He systematically worked his way through kitchens so that when he had the opportunity to be a chef or an owner, his chances of failure were nearly none.

He went on to partner with Greg root, who was an exceptional operator here in the city. And they started a restaurant called root and then their big hit, their really breakout hit was when they opened up Sariah, which is a Lebanese inspired restaurant in Fishtown. That is just an immersive experience when you go there.

And, you know, Nick had to sort of translate, you know, from the matriarch of this family, Lebanese family, uh, translate that sort of love and care and food, the soulfulness onto the plate. Uh, at cereus. So we're gonna talk a little bit about that, you know, before we get to the show, I want to remind everybody we're going to have some merchandise coming up soon.

You might've seen it on our Instagram. We're trying to get the online store going. I'm just delayed a little bit and busy, and also check out the website for any other old podcasts. You want to take a look at it as always give feedback, please click the rating, leave a review, a couple of words that matters that makes the podcast able to reach more viewers.

So, you know, as always appreciate you guys listening. Enjoy the show. I think it's a really, really powerful one.

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Nick Kennedy: [00:06:24] chef talks and chef talks, uh, chat, 

Eli Kulp: [00:06:28] chef cooking, hospitality, and wireman food. 

Nick Kennedy: [00:06:32] Is that really what it stands for? 

Eli Kulp: [00:06:34] I never really knew that liver to you, straight from the minds of the people who shaped the way we eat. It's had to believe 

Nick Kennedy: [00:06:39] in the possibility of food 

Emilio Mignucci: [00:06:41] over 

Nick Kennedy: [00:06:41] going through 

Eli Kulp: [00:06:44] these talks, these ideas and more on the chef radio outcast.

All right, everybody. Welcome back to the chef radio podcast. This is Eli. And I have, uh, Nick Kennedy in the studio today, famous for his cooking at Syria, uh, here in Philadelphia, Nick, how are you? I'm doing great. 

Nick Kennedy: [00:07:06] Thank 

Eli Kulp: [00:07:07] you for having me. Yeah, absolutely. Man, putting the podcast together. I'd reminiscing about days of old, you know, we are, we're actually working together.

Nick Kennedy: [00:07:16] Yeah, yeah. Side by side and they'll post. Oh yeah. Yeah. 

Eli Kulp: [00:07:19] That was a good time. When, who was, does he mean Greg Vernick, Pete Serpico. And then you, you know, maybe a year and a half later came down from New York and uh, you know, it's amazing how Philadelphia has been. So, uh, They accepted of, of, you know, us coming from New York city and then sort of us assimilating here and then cooking.

And I know you've been, you know, people love what you're doing at Sariah and everything. So yeah, 

Nick Kennedy: [00:07:50] I mean the chef community has been fantastic, just really welcoming. And then just the, the, you know, the, the people of Philadelphia and the community, it's a great place to live, great place to work. And you really lucky to Atlanta here.

Eli Kulp: [00:08:03] That's great. So let's talk about your background a little bit. You have a very good pedigree when it comes to the chefs you've worked for the restaurants you've been in talk about sort of where you started, how you got into the business and they'll go on and talk about some of the chefs. Got 

Nick Kennedy: [00:08:18] it. Yeah.

So, I mean, I, I was really fortunate to grow up with always having great food. My mom is a fantastic cook and we also she's always had a garden and cheese. Has a huge garden. And so we were always, yeah, we were always just like, you know, forced labor on the weekends, you know, weeding and working in the garden.

And, you know, I remember like, you know, sometimes not liking it, but now, you know, that's all I want to do. Yes. And, you know, we reaped all the benefits of just literally, you know, like she'd be out there. You know, gardening and bring the food back in and then cooking it for dinner. And that's what we, right.

Where did you grow up? So we grew up and, uh, I was born in Maryland, Eastern, Maryland, Eastern shore. So crabs were a big part of our life on the weekend. And, uh, then we moved to New Jersey round when I was like fifth grade or so. Okay. And grew up in the countryside of New Jersey 

Eli Kulp: [00:09:12] where at like, uh, South 

Nick Kennedy: [00:09:14] central, Western central Western.

So it was like equidistant between New York, city and Philadelphia. Okay. 

Eli Kulp: [00:09:19] Yeah. And so did New York city have any influence on you guys? Would you take trips 

Nick Kennedy: [00:09:23] up there? Yeah. Yeah. So we would like, we would take trips, you know, to New York city or to Philadelphia. And like, I even remember when, before we were.

Moved to New Jersey, like in Maryland, we would drive up to Philadelphia and go to the Italian market. Cause that was back in the day before you could find all those at the grocery store, you know what I mean? You could find like, you know, pecorino, Romano. And so like we would go up the Italian market and like stock up on pecorino, Romano and all that 

Eli Kulp: [00:09:49] because it wasn't, it wasn't common in grim, typical grocery stores.

You couldn't find it. Yeah. Interesting. That's cool. Did you have a, is there a Italian in your blood? Yeah, 

Nick Kennedy: [00:09:59] so my, uh, both my mom and my dad's family, they come from Italy. So my dad's from uproot. So my mom's from Calabria. Oh, that's funny. I knew that about, yeah. Yeah. So we were sort of, you know, we, we just love the culture and the food.

And so we traveled a lot there as well. 

Eli Kulp: [00:10:13] Oh, yeah. Okay, cool. I'm assuming you saw family over there because 

Nick Kennedy: [00:10:17] yeah, they're not, they're not that close. You know what I mean, everyone, like, uh, you know, immigrated to the U S and like my mom's family, you know, they came from Columbia, they ended up in Punxsutawney Pennsylvania.

So, uh, you know, they're a little bit far from that, but we've, you know, gravitated to that history and as much as possible, we'd like to learn more and experience it. Yeah. Yeah, 

Eli Kulp: [00:10:37] absolutely. It's great to, you know, uh, share with your kids as they get older as well. So let's talk about the restaurants that really had the biggest influences on you in your career.

I know, uh, John George was a chef that you worked for quite a while. What was that experience like in New York and, and what was the, the catalyst from going to, from, you know, learning how to cook into a, uh, uh, establishment like that? Like, what was, what was the journey between John Georges and, and. You work in the garden at home and having an appreciation 

Nick Kennedy: [00:11:12] for food.

Right. Right. So, you know, we are family we're up around food. And so we were always, you know, we're at dinner, we're talking about what we're having to eat for the next two days. You know what I mean? Or the weekend it's around, there's plenty of food. And so, and we had a, a huge, like a library of cookbooks that were always around.

So we always be picking something up and, you know, picking a complicated recipe to cook on the weekend. And so gravitate into cooking with my, you know, with my mom, my dad and my brothers, and like, you know, watching PBS and watch Chuck buck Ben and, you know, and Julia child and just our lives were revolving around food.

And I just enjoyed it. And so somewhere along the way, decided that this is, you know, I think something that I would want to do. So I was really fortunate to get a job at this restaurant and it's still around, it's called the harvest moon and it's in Ringo's New Jersey Ringo. Yeah. And it's a little bit there in the middle of nowhere.

And it was, but the chef is Stanley Novak and this was in 1996 and he was a CIA, so culinary suit of America trained chef. And he had also worked in New York city at the river cafe. And this was back in the day where all the top chefs were like going through there. So here's this guy that has this amazing pedigree of skills.

And I sort of wandered into the kitchen there and started as a food runner and expediter. And then he's like, what do you want to do? I was like, I think I want to cook. He's like, well, get back there. Yeah. Hey man, I need somebody on garbage tonight. Exactly. So I, you know, he threw me in garbage. Yeah. You know, honestly, I look back and, you know, there's, I think two major things.

Seeing him and his work ethic. I mean, uh, just a guy who, you know, that the quintessential chef owner, you know what I mean? Was there the earliest one there, the last one there, he was, you know, repairing everything and, you know, putting a garden out back and just doing everything there with his wife and then his, the food that he was doing there as well.

I mean, he was using all the things that are like amazing today and like he was doing all those back then. You know what I mean? Like there, wasn't a single piece of scrap that wasn't utilized somewhere else. You know what I mean? So he's making all of his own patties and like, we would go through so many ducks and he'd render all the duck fat.

So everything on the meat station was sauteed and duck fat, which is like, Delicious, you know what I mean? Right. And, you know, we would get an, all this dry aged beef and he would just take all the scraps and out of frugality, you know, grind it up and put into the hamburger, but he's basically, he's basically making his dry aged hamburger.

Eli Kulp: [00:13:46] It was just something that 20 years before 

Nick Kennedy: [00:13:48] Pat Loffreda ever came up with it. Exactly. You know, just amazing work act that the quality of food. And there was a lot of farms around there cause you're in this part of New Jersey. And so like, that was my luckily that was my first entry point into a professional kitchen.

Eli Kulp: [00:14:02] That's pretty fortunate that you were able to get, you know, just kind of walk into that kitchen and get going. And I remember the 

Nick Kennedy: [00:14:07] first sort of restaurant dish because. You know, we, we w we were, you know, very frugal growing up. My mom was a great cook. So we go out occasionally and, you know, to like Chinese restaurant or here or there, but, you know, very, very rarely, but I was like, I was on the past, I was a food runner and the, the, the owner, uh, Stan's wife was there and there was an extra F a dish that got miss made, you know, it was a flog raw dish, and it was seer for Gras, sauteed, peaches, leaks, raspberry vinegarette, and some fried leeks on top.

And she's like, here have this. And it was like my first sort of, you know, like flog raw, never had anything like that. And sort of like a really composed layer dish. Uh, and I ate it and I was like, Holy crap. You know, and I can still remember, I can see it, I can smell it and I can taste it. And I was like, you know, You know, it's a different, it's just a different type of food.

Cause I was coming from, you know, the soulful, amazingly flavorful food from the garden and stuff and my mom, but it's, you know, it's, it's, it's home cooking, which is fantastic. And, but this was this sort of, you know, constructed restaurant food that was, you know, different. And I was like, Oh wow, this is cool.

Yeah. You want to learn more? 

Eli Kulp: [00:15:17] Right. How do you do this? Right. That's what good chefs do we build layers in the food? And it makes sure that every bite works with the other bite and yeah. And you know, they can, the guests can experience that. So that's cool. You were able to experience that such a young age.

Yeah. And then that just sort of puts you on 

Nick Kennedy: [00:15:34] the path. So then, so that, that sort of solidified the idea that I wanted to, to, to, you know, keep cooking, you know what I mean? And back in the day, you didn't know, there wasn't a lot on TV, you know what I mean? And so there wasn't a lot of examples as well of knowing what that was, but somehow decided this is what I wanted to do.

You know what I mean? I saw, you know, the, the chef there. Um, as an example of being like a chef proprietor, you know what I mean, having my own restaurant and just working your butt off and doing it, 

Eli Kulp: [00:16:02] how was he was the sort of the old school screaming chef and not at all. 

Nick Kennedy: [00:16:06] Okay. Like he was, um, kind of stoic and just like, you know, one of those guys that just, he would show you something and then stand next to you and do it 10 times faster than you could.

And just like show lead by example, that that's how he did it at school. It was just like, sort of that just instilled this work ethic. And I just, I still remember. Yeah, 

Eli Kulp: [00:16:28] that's great. Is so the restaurant is still there. It's still there. He's still there. Yeah. 

Nick Kennedy: [00:16:33] He ever go back. I haven't been back in awhile, but yeah, it's on my mind.

Less effort. It crossed my mind. Yeah. I want to go back and kill him again. 

Eli Kulp: [00:16:41] That's cool. That's cool. So then after that, what was afterwards? 

Nick Kennedy: [00:16:45] The next step I went to the culinary Institute of America, um, you know, had a good experience there. And then for my externship, I was looking around and, uh, I ended up going to Oceana in New York city, which was with chef Rick Moonen and, you know, Back in, I guess that was 98 or 99.

That was like one of the top rush. There were not that many, a three-star New York times restaurants. There was maybe two or three, four stars. And for seafood and 

Eli Kulp: [00:17:15] Rick Moonen was, was at the top of the list for, especially for seafood. 

Nick Kennedy: [00:17:21] It was like in Liberty and then, and Oceana. And I went in there and another like amazing experience.

And he's, he w he is an amazing chef. And, you know, that was the first time where, you know, he would go down to Chinatown and have all these ingredients and all these different fish and having so many different flavors and techniques. And I mean, the people in the kitchen as well, where we're, you know, 

Eli Kulp: [00:17:45] right.

Yeah. I also worked at Oceana. But I, I worked there after Rick Moonen with, uh, was Cornelius Gallagher. Yeah. Same idea though. Just doing an amazing seafood focused, uh, you know, at a high level, very small kitchen and the kitchen. I think when after Cornelius was there a minute, they did redo the kitchen and it was such a perfect Juul box kitchen.

And there was not a single, um, lost movement in that kitchen. It was, everything was tight. You turned around in the past. Was there it's it was just. You, everything was everything was there. There's no running around. It was the opposite of Del Posto, where we had a, basically a three lane highway of a line that, you know, the meat cook had to run back and forth about 20 steps each way to bring it to the path.

Absolutely. 

Nick Kennedy: [00:18:39] Yeah. There's a perfect kitchen, but it was definitely cool to see like, you know, two different sides of there. Yeah, 

Eli Kulp: [00:18:45] yeah, no doubt then what you did that, and then you sort of learned that John Georges is the place to be. 

Nick Kennedy: [00:18:51] No. So after that, you know, went back to school and, and after another two years at, um, CIA, um, I had, uh, gone with a couple of classmates to the, in a little Washington.

Oh, okay. And we had a chef's table, uh, inside the kitchen and we had like another one of those like amazing dining experiences. And I was like, Okay. I want to work here. You know what I mean? It's sort of like the it's, it's different because it's in the middle of nowhere and, you know, everything was at the top there that the level of ingredients and the service, you know, but almost more importantly, it was a theatrical illness of it.

Um, Patrick has a background of theater and so every detail along the way from when you first pick up the phone or you walk through the door was orchestrated and you didn't know that, you know, until you started working there, but you know, to, to see that, you know, it was like one of those dishes as well that I had there that I still remember in my mind.

And it was very simple. So it was shaved a country hand. Country, ham, excuse me, you know, Virginia country, ham, um, melons. And he had farmers growing everything for him constantly. And so it was like freshly shaved melon. But what they did is before they came around and did like a little hand washing ceremony.

So they came around and poured water over your hands and they give you a towel to wash to dry your hands off. Then they place a bowl of freshly, uh, snipped herbs. And so they told you to take the herbs, rub them between your hands. So you had all the essential oils, then they instruct you to eat the Hammond melon with your fingers.

And then, you know, it was with a perfect wine pairing of some old reasoning. And just like, you know, you have the aroma of all the herbs and the ham and the melon and the wine. And it was something that's really simple, you know what I mean, Mellon at ham, but it was done in such a way and so thoughtful.

And like the hand was amazing and the melons were grown on purpose for that dish. And, you know, the servers being part of that, you know what I mean? And they didn't overly explain to you, but the experience like. You know, it totally made it 

Eli Kulp: [00:20:50] just at a Roma. You know, the interacting with. With the herbs and the, the, just having that Roma on your hands changed the entire dish.

Nick Kennedy: [00:20:59] And then again, like this was pretty early. And so, you know, now, like then, you know, you see a couple of years later at Alinea, they have a fork where they have the fork with the herbs attached to it. You know what I mean? So you're doing that, but like, Patrick was doing that beforehand. You know what I mean?

And you're actually getting them on your hands and using your hands to eat 

Eli Kulp: [00:21:16] because you know, there's very little that's ever invented in food that hasn't, hasn't been done or a version of it. There's a lineage there that you can trace back. Um, you know, I think when you, when you mentioned Lynnie, I was thinking about the, uh, the dish comes out on the pillow.

It has like scented with could be not, I think it was nutmeg cause it was winter and they poke the little holes in the pillow and as you're eating it, the pillow is getting smaller and the Romas coming out, um, you know, with that way of thinking the theatrics, which you know, which came with elBulli, you know, with, uh, obviously like Noma.

You know, where there's, you know, there's even, you know, you're forced, first course is sitting on the table and a pot of flowers and you have to figure out which part is that of all, which one's not, you know, so that's great, man. That's, that's so cool. And they're still going as well. Yeah. He's a three Michelin star and they are just crushing.

They they've 

Nick Kennedy: [00:22:13] been around for a long time and he's still there and there it's, it's really special. And, and they're in the middle of nowhere, you know what I mean? They're, you know, an hour away from the closest grocery store and he's created this ecosystem to support the restaurant really, really that's, that's 

Eli Kulp: [00:22:25] pretty amazing.

And you gotta wear those Dalmatian defamation chef pants, 

Nick Kennedy: [00:22:30] and he had monks chanting in the background in the kitchen. So yeah, I don't, I 

Eli Kulp: [00:22:34] don't, I've never heard of 

Nick Kennedy: [00:22:35] this. What's that? Yeah. So I mean, we would, you know, part of the experience was they would give one of them it's. You know, one of the most beautiful kitchens ever, you know what I mean?

And giant windows and painting. And so part of that was inviting the guests back this, the, see it, uh, you know, we there's tables, but you know, give kitchen tours. And so we'd be in the middle of service and there'd be a tour and we have to stop everything. You're doing, take your pants off the stove and you have like huge pickups and things coming up and you have to line up in the front of the kitchen and they turn into the monks, they play the monks and they allow the guests to come in and we all are standing in a line to sort of greet the guests.

And then there's the middle of the serve in the middle of service. Then you have to like, you know, run in the mind, your, your, your, in your mind, your heads racing. You're like, all right, I got this, I got that of the pan. I got this pickup in the next pickup and, uh, you know, stressful. But then you realize that it's drilled into your head that it's, you know, it's about the guest, you know what I mean?

And so, you know, yes, it's about the product and your job to do, but, you know, smiling and, you know, and being there for the guests so they can see you. That's being important, being gracious under pressure. Exactly. 

Eli Kulp: [00:23:34] That's cool. Yeah, that's really cool. Yeah. I don't think I remember you'd ever tell me about, uh, The Inn at little Washington.

That's cool 

Nick Kennedy: [00:23:42] stories back there. Yeah. That's very, very cool. That's some really, really great chefs there as well. How long were you there for, 

Eli Kulp: [00:23:47] uh, 

Nick Kennedy: [00:23:48] almost two years. Um, and then I was 

Eli Kulp: [00:23:51] that had a profound impact on you, for sure. Absolutely. Especially at 

Nick Kennedy: [00:23:54] that age. And so it was, you know, what do you do then? Do you stay there?

And so I decided, you know, I wanted to sort of work my way up around and all the stations. Do you want to try to stay there or do you want to move on? So I, you know, I decided that I wanted to, you know, I always found that the second you get comfortable, know what I mean? It's time for a change. And you're really learning the most when you're like challenged the most and in that uncomfortable setting and have those butterflies in your stomach, you know what I mean?

So as soon as you, as soon as I felt like I didn't have that nervous energy, it's like, all right, it's time for a change. Cause I wanted to keep on growing and learning. And so I was, I was looking at where do I go next? And it's like, I want to go work for the best, that the hardest and you know, to. Because I wanted to be the best.

And so, um, you know, looking at New York city, you know, the list of all the top restaurants and I applied to the mall and Stosh through the mall and I ended up at John George, uh Boulay uh, Labarna den. Um, and then I didn't get into Danielle proper, but I went to DBB Stroh. So I said hit all the big top names and the culture at John Jores really attracted to me.

I mean, everyone in all though, that top level restaurants extremely serious and focused and amazing ingredients and amazing food. Um, at John George, it had, um, uh, level of, uh, hard to say, you know, organization and, and, you know, certainly the intensity was there. Um, It was a little bit, seem to be a little bit more organized.

I dunno. It's way, you know what I mean? It's like, I think it's one of the only ones that has an open kitchen. Yeah. It had an open kitchen. Yeah. Because you're open to nicotine and the other dining room and you have windows out onto the street. Um, 

Eli Kulp: [00:25:40] yeah, I had a really nice stodge there. Yeah. It was set up by another chef.

All my, when I was at Oceana actually then the chef, uh, Cornelius, he sent me up on a, on a one day stodge over there and it was you're right. I mean, it was even downstairs that large preps area. Very well orchestrated. 

Nick Kennedy: [00:25:58] Yeah. That was just, just a different, I mean, you know, every kitchen has their own sort of culture and end sort of energy.

I think even, you know what I mean? And so the energy of, of John George extreme pressure and focus, um, but as well, it just felt like it was a little bit smoother in the way they communicated. It was a little bit clearer and calmer. You know what I mean? Or as opposed to blue light was kind of. Kind of crazy and chaotic.

You never knew what was going to happen at belay. So John was like, certainly no yelling. It was just very plain and focused and, you know, serious. This is what they expected and this is what you need. Yeah. 

Boulay 

Eli Kulp: [00:26:31] I mean, w I mean, chef would change anything any minute. Right. I heard stories 

on 

Nick Kennedy: [00:26:37] a whim. I mean, that's, I think it was like a, like a Napoleon technique where he wanted to keep his subordinates, like on edge.

And he felt like he'd get the most out of them when they were like, you know, so nervous. And so purposely he would change things at the last moment, which is like, for me, it's like my worst nightmare. You know, what I mean is all about like prepared and focused and preparing yourself. And so that's the antithesis of, of John George.

I mean, it was that John George, that, you know, I was there when they trans started transitioning everything over to grams and like weighing like, you know, the salt and the water and everything. And. And that wasn't done precision. Yeah. And now that's commonplace, you know what I mean? But like, back then it wasn't, you know what I mean?

It was, you know, we were using tablespoons and that was part of your MES and Blas and, you know, a lot of things where to tastes or whatever, you're still doing that. But now it's like, you start with, you know, ratios and salt percentages and it's, you know, it's, it's easier to control things and fine tune things.

Do 

Eli Kulp: [00:27:36] you find yourself using those, those techniques still today? 

Nick Kennedy: [00:27:39] Totally. It's, you know, it's, it's one of the things that I know them and some other places like they do it, you know, and almost like where they're putting the plate on the scale as they're building it, you know what I mean? Cause I think there is that perfect ratio and that perf perfect.

And we never quite get there. Right. But whatever you can do to eliminate the variations along the way. Yeah, 

Eli Kulp: [00:28:01] absolutely. Consistency is number one. Yeah. And once you establish that, then you can kind of build on the other, other more fundamental aspects of a good dish. And you're talking about belay. And, you know, a lot of people might listen to this and, you know, David belays, you know, he's an amazing chef and trained in France and came back and, you know, just, just the entrance and read about theatrical.

Right. And just the entrance into the Dynomutt ballet, you know, with the vestibule was chock full 

Nick Kennedy: [00:28:29] of yeah. Or Quintz or whatever. And so you're, you're hit with that aroma. 

Eli Kulp: [00:28:33] Oh man. Soon as you walk into the restaurant from that door, you're surrounded by an aroma of fruits and it immediately switches you from whatever you're doing outside the hecticness of, of getting there in New York city and the crappy a cab ride, whatever.

And it resets you and says, okay, I'm in for something special. Yeah. 

Nick Kennedy: [00:28:54] And that's, you know, there's, like you said before, where nothing's really created that sort of like, you know, you can see that mimicked in, in Noma, you know, I mean, where they have all their ingredients like outside, you know, like as you enter the building, so right.

Eli Kulp: [00:29:06] And it's, it hits on a, uh, hits on a note inside your body that, you know, tasting something can't do you know? It, it really, it really is a memorable, it's a smell that you'll you might remember when you walking through the orchard someday, but Oh, take you back to that time. You ate a Boulay yeah,

everybody we're taking a quick break. I got Emilio here, uh, from di Bruno brothers, Amelia. How you doing? Ah, fantastic. Great. Great to see you. Um, you guys have some great stuff going on in. You know, these virtual cheese events I'm hearing about, are they they're going gangbusters? What what's going on?

Because I know sort of some that since the pandemic hit, right, you've had to pivot a little bit. Yeah, 

Emilio Mignucci: [00:29:53] listen, we, you know, pre pandemic, we had a lot of events scheduled, you know, pandemic happens, those events all cancel, but you know, the, these, you know, we were doing a lot of corporate business and events and they transitioned to the virtual events and the virtual events had been gone so well that they become a really, um, great part of our business.

And, you know, People just get in touch with our corporate account team or, or our catering team, or, you know, the easiest way is just go to corporate@thebrunodotcomorjustdobruno.com and just ask, uh, you know, for some of these events, but we booked them three, four or five nights a week. They're basically like, uh, happy hours.

And, you know, we send out, I mean, it's, it's, it's really easy. We, you know, you reserve the date, we send out whatever, you know, tasting kit or box. So you were interested in, and then, uh, we send you a link. Yeah, it's a loud lawn for, um, for like a zoom meeting through it and, and, you know, we help you celebrate, 

Eli Kulp: [00:30:56] so you have a cheesemonger that will be there and it could be for any special occasion, it could be something for the office.

Just get the morale up. 

Emilio Mignucci: [00:31:04] Yeah. Yeah. We've done them for families. We've done them for different offices. We've done. Gallas the Phillies just hired us a few weeks ago to do one for them. We, you know, we did, uh, a lunch for Jose Garcia, a launch for his website and stuff go. That was fun, you know, like, so, you know, listen, all of our friends and buddies like, you know, and, and, and a lot of them, like if.

If not me then Alex, we're haunted. Like you get, you know, some of our really cool, listen, it's fun for us as marketers to get on there and to teach people and like, you know, we're not having as much to that store currently. So, uh, yeah, they, they work out really, really great. We've done them for like families, just like people during the holidays.

I want to get together with their families and they couldn't travel. So yeah, it was just high-risk. 

Eli Kulp: [00:31:49] So you guys, we got some big events coming up. I mean, you got mother's day coming up for sure. Father's day. You have, um, 

Emilio Mignucci: [00:31:56] Yeah. So we incorporated like, like a special monthly one. So we were doing like this month.

Well, you know, Valentine's day was choosing chocolate. There you go. We're doing a, um, we're doing a, um, father's day with, um, like how to pair, um, uh, the whiskeys with cheese, Rochelle and, you know, uh, um, mother's day brunch, cheeseboard, and delegates cheeses. We're doing like every month we have a seasonal or a special one plan for like the public.

And so we'll take out a script, 50, 60 people up to a hundred, you know, randomly 

Eli Kulp: [00:32:32] so cool. So people can just go to your website to bruno.com, Purdue to bruna.com and get signed up.

Um, how, how how'd your growth go from the lab? So 

Nick Kennedy: [00:32:48] know, work my way through, uh, through all the stations on shores and work my way up to sous chef. And, um, again, thought it was time for a different change. And so, uh, uh, went down to New York city. I mean, excuse me. I went to Washington DC with one of the other sous chefs for a year, just to try something out, realizing, you know, not for me.

I miss New York city, the energy and the restaurants and everything. So came back and helped my friend open up a restaurant, um, called Mercado, which was fun for a year. Uh, he was, he had come from John George and there was another sous chefs. It was this team of like, All store, you know, chefs like working the line on there at that point, I was trying to find out like, what's the next, you know, long-term step.

And so, you know, Italian cuisine had always been my passion, even growing, working at the French re you know, the French restaurant of, you know, uh, in little Washington and John George, but there was never a restaurant really that was trying to do it at a high level. And Del Posto had come on know a couple of years beforehand.

And they were obviously really trying to go for that top level of cuisine. Right. And so I was like, I want to go work here. And I actually, you know, I stopped and then I went and ate there and I don't think I could afford to eat in the main dining room, but I went to the Enoteca and I had the tortellini and burrito, and it was just that simple dish of tortellini and Brode.

I was like, that's awesome. That's what I want to work here. You know what I mean? So it's funny, like, along the way, there's these little dishes that sort of like, you know, evoke. You know, what you think that restaurant is and could teach you and how you could, you know, Learn and grow from it. And that was that, that was the dish.

You know what I mean? It was the perfect Brodo was clear and it was rich without being heavy and deep. And the tortellini were like minuscule and perfect and perfectly cooked and elegant, you know, that, that elegant simplicity, which was it 

Eli Kulp: [00:34:39] amazing. That's something that, you know, chef Mark Ladner was so good at.

He was really, even though he didn't really come up in fine dining, he had the ability that, you know, um, that Mario probably didn't have, which was, you know, to how to finesse something to a high level, but keep it at its core and at its essence, very simple. And, you know, feeling like it's from is it was cooked by a grandmother.

Nick Kennedy: [00:35:06] Yeah. I mean, you know, Mark, who was a chef at, uh, Mark Latin, who was a chef at Dubbo. So it's like, I still chill try to figure out like how his mind works. You know what I mean? Worked is like he did, you know, he was awesome. Worked for like an, a brilliant cook and just how we could coax these flavors and have these little twists on ideas.

And it was really fun. 

Eli Kulp: [00:35:28] Yeah. What do you remember? And we touched on earlier, um, you know, Nick and I, we, we, we worked side by side to kind of paint the picture for people there. The kitchen at Del Posto was really, really large the line. Uh, there was actually four different lines, right. For, uh, plus five.

Yeah. And each one would say was 25 feet long. Yeah. And they came sort of vertically down and then the past, uh, were sort of horizontally or perpendicular at the end of those. And, you know, the, they definitely had the space and they used it. Um, you know, you put your, put some miles on walking around there, but you know, this kitchen was enormous and you know, you and I sort of, how long do you think we were working next to each other a year?

Yeah, 

at 

Nick Kennedy: [00:36:21] least a year, I think. 

Eli Kulp: [00:36:22] Yeah. So you came on and you were overseeing the, the fish. Yeah. So all the fish and, uh, I was doing all the meat and we were doing, you know, the entree. Uh, and then of course he had pasta station and hot apps and, you know, um, and then garbage, but the, you know, that time for me, Del Posto was a defining restaurant.

I like you I'd worked at French. French American, you know, French inspired restaurants up to that point, you know, really difficult chefs, you know, that really made your life miserable sometimes on purpose. Um, you know, the stress of those restaurants and then walking into Del Posto and filling a completely different vibe.

And you can't cook Italian food angry now? 

Nick Kennedy: [00:37:13] No, no. Um, but it was, you know, I, I felt when we were there, you're always, restaurants are always a bit of controlled chaos, but it was, it was, you know, the, we were pushing two big things, you know, it was a big restaurant and so it was high volume. Um, but we were also, you know, pushing while we're there.

We were trying to go, you know, go from three stars, four stars. So there's this constant drive of, you know, this is our goal. This is where we're going to. And so it was, you know, Along with everything when you're there, you know, a lot of pressure, but like good pressure, you know what I mean? Really enjoyed it.

And everybody was, 

Eli Kulp: [00:37:48] everybody was working towards a common goal that was to get that forestry. 

Nick Kennedy: [00:37:53] Yep. And it was, you know, it's definitely, it was a different atmosphere because you were given, you know, more autonomy because as a chef where you were in charge of your section of the restaurant, you know, I was in charge of the fish, you were in charge of the meat and there was other people in charge of their areas.

And so you're responsible for developing the dishes with Mark and bring those into the fold, but also making sure that they made sense with the other chefs and with, you know, Brooks on, uh, in the pastry as well. So, you know, you were, you had to be creative and then as well, make sure it connected with everything else and make sure it followed the vision of what Mark wanted.

And so, you know, that that was, you know, another set of pressures cause they weren't, you know, weren't holding your hand and this is what you need to do and you need to make this dish or whatever, make 

Eli Kulp: [00:38:32] it work. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, you mentioned autonomy and you'd think a restaurant like that would.

You know, where a chef would be, the one creating the dishes and, but Mark, you know, he has no ego. That's something that I loved about Mark is that, you know, you wanted to allow us young chefs to sort of develop a palette who guide us. Yeah. You know, and he had, he had all the knowledge, you know, the knowledge about Italy and the different regions and, you know, being able to play some of that, um, those ideas into the dishes themselves.

That's what I always got from, from working with them. And also just realizing that, you know, you can have a, a kitchen that almost almost drives itself in a positive direction by, by trust. Yeah. 

Nick Kennedy: [00:39:20] Yeah, absolutely. Um, I mean, it was fantastic to work with him and work on him and working with the other chefs that were there.

Definitely. 

Eli Kulp: [00:39:27] Right. For me, that was, uh, that, that restaurant. Um, definitely had the most influence on, on me and really found, you know, I don't have an ounce of Italian blood in me, but I connected with the, the, the way that Italian food is presented, how it's made, you know, that, that connection with the ingredient and not, not manipulated that ingredient too much.

But still making it, you know, feel like you're, you're eating something special and at a high 

Nick Kennedy: [00:39:59] level. Yeah. I mean, Mark was always, you know, and he would never come out and directly tell you something. He would like go through these different ways and you have to sort of piece through to try to understand it.

Um, but I always remember, like you, you would give him a dish and, you know, coming from our French background, we might have like a little this and a little of that. And he would take the dish and give like, give it a shake. You know what I mean? Just to like, you know, displace everything and make it look like little bit more natural.

And like, we were trying to recreate in a way, the experiences of like that no-no in Italy, you know what I mean, walking into, you know, the house with that perfect Tertullian and Broda, these are humble foods, but been refined along the way. And so like, how do you bring the refinement of these humble foods and, and, you know, but as well, making them fit within that really fancy setting up  

Eli Kulp: [00:40:42] so the cart they'll go around the, you know, I have to make.

Five gallons of consummate every week. Yeah. Oh my God. I mean, how do you elevate such a rustic dish, like bleed on 

Nick Kennedy: [00:40:52] Easter, which has put a lot of effort into each little thing along the way. I love that as well. 

Eli Kulp: [00:40:56] Yeah, it was, it was, it was a tremendous learning experience. So let's fast forward to today, right?

You've, you know, you came to Philly and, you know, you've found a partner and we'll get more into that. And now you have, you're overseeing what, like four different spots. 

Nick Kennedy: [00:41:14] Uh, we have Sariah, we have pizzeria Vidia. We have R and D cocktail bar. That's right. And we have Candescent center city 

Eli Kulp: [00:41:21] right now. Let's talk about the one that sort of put you on the map, uh, which is Sarayah, uh, in Philadelphia, at least that, you know, that restaurant is very special.

I mean, the accolades that you guys have had, you know, best restaurant in Philly, you know, the, the, the, just the architecture of that restaurant. Yeah. Working with the developer Roland. Can you tell, tell me a little bit about that experience and meeting Greg and going through, you know, when you opened route and then into Sarayah and learning Lebanese food from the mother of, you know, this, the matriarch of this 

Nick Kennedy: [00:42:06] family.

Right? So I, uh, I, I had a child and I have right. My son in, in New York city and we were living in Brooklyn, you know, he was basically living in a closet in our apartment. And then we had a, we got pregnant with our daughter, uh, Juliana, and we needed more space and, you know, looking around New York city, it's impossible.

And we ended up moving to Jersey city and while still working in the city, um, my wife and I, and, and it was just, you know, too much, I'm trying to figure out what's, what's the longterm step. So, you know, fast forward, moved to Philadelphia and jumped here and basically didn't have anything planned in a way.

Basically, I wanted to open up my own restaurant. And that was a goal. And so I always look meeting with realtors and designers and trying to line up investors. And it's, you know, it's very difficult process. And, you know, along the way I was in Fishtown and my wife and I were just having to. To go to Frankfurt hall.

And I met my business partner, Greg route there, and it was just something where we randomly, randomly, we bumped into each other and I think he was a director for star, something like that. So you may not even need just touching the tables and meeting with people, but you know, we, you know, everyone in the industry has these little nods.

We don't like to talk that we're in the industry, but you can tell by, you know, might be a burn on someone's arm or the way they talk or the way they, you know, pick up China and look at the bottom of the plate or whatever. So somehow like, and he didn't come out with it. But somehow I knew that he was, you know, part of it and, you know, I was in part of it.

And then he was his son's birthday was the next day. And my wife, who's a Dominican and a lot more outgoing than I am. She like invited ourselves to their birthday party because we were new to town and you shouldn't meet new people. And, uh, our son, you know what I mean? We're closer in age. So. You know, we invited ourselves to their son's birthday.

The next day and school, we ended up going, just talking more and, you know, realize that we're, you know, same age and in the industry and just connected. And, um, at the same time I had been talking to, uh, an architect who is, uh, part, uh, who works with, uh, my now business partner, Roland Cassie's as well, who is a developer.

And so who was also very good friends with Greg and was also already talking to him about doing a restaurant in Fishtown. Oh, wow. So we're all like, we all met up and I met up with Greg without rolling knowing, and I was meeting with Roland without Greg knowing. So we were this, you know, three points of the triangle.

We were all meeting each other separately without really knowing it that's crazy. And so, you know, I was, I was looking to open my own restaurant. Um, but as well in my mind, I. I was looking around and looking at other things like, how do you become more successful? And I saw, you know, groups of people and, you know, when they do partner up, I see an opportunity to be, uh, more successful and more opportunity for growth.

And so like in around that time, I'd seen, uh, martyr Kebony and rich Torrisi when you work with them, I saw this team of people, you know what I mean? And like saw what they were doing and how they were expanding. And so it was like the thought came across, you know, with Greg and with Roland. Well, why don't we do this together instead of trying to do it out all by yourself.

And I, so I thought there was a greater likelihood of success in, you know, amazingly smart and talented people. And, you know, we all have our specialties and it's so, you know, defined people that have other skills and talents that, that are not your forte and to be able to lean on them. And that allows you to focus on, you know, your forte at the same time, learning more.

Um, and that was a reason for partnering up. So we decided to open the small little restaurant fish Fishtown as a starting point. 

Eli Kulp: [00:45:30] That's cool. And for those out there that, um, you know, Greg root, obviously very, you know, he worked for star for a long time. Uh, one of the, one of their, one of their heads there and then Roland Cassie's, I mean, this guy is almost single-handedly responsible for what Fishtown has become as a developer.

He saw the vision for what Fishtown could be. And, you know, he, I mean, how many properties did he turn? Um, 20, 30. I have no idea, uh, to make it what it is 

Nick Kennedy: [00:46:04] today, curator of the neighborhood and, you know, in a way, and, and. Done it responsibly. And he brought LA Colonia in there. He brought Frankford hall in before it was nothing.

I mean, it was known as a really rough, rough part of town. You know what I mean? And it could have gone a different way. You could have had these bad apartment buildings go up, but he's. Had this vision of bringing in quality operators along the way and, and developing it in the right way, you know, slowly.

And so anyway, so we opened up, uh, we had a, a tiny little space. I don't, I think it was like 40 seats inside, and that was our sort of first restaurant. And we, it was like a wine bar, so we call it a route. And, uh, but at the same time, before that even opened Roland and, you know, part of his vision and why we got together, he's like, I have this other space and this other idea, and it was up the street and it's for this Lebanese restaurant.

And I was like, okay, that's interesting. And I, uh, coming from Brooklyn, my son's favorite food was, uh, Zatara new from the hotties, uh, in Brooklyn. And so, and we have some good Lebanese friends as well. I was mildly familiar with the cuisine, but not much at all. So Roland proposed the idea of here's this restaurant I want to do.

It's a passion project of mine. You know, we do route and at the same time we opened this other restaurant. So opening two restaurants is Lebanese and Roland is Lebanese. And, um, you know, it's, it's a weird proposal, you know what I mean? And it's not, it wasn't my, I had other ideas for concepts of restaurants that I wanted to open my own.

And it wasn't, you know, the original, small little wine bar we had talked about that we were going to do, or wasn't the Lebanese restaurant, but there's an opportunity there. So I sort of sat back and I was like, let me, let me think about it. And I sort of went through this sort of process of like researching more about Lebanese cuisine.

Um, and, and I, I sort of saw enough similarities to other, to Italian, other Mediterranean cuisines and ingredients. And I understand how understood how delicious the food could be. Um, and so I saw it as a unique opportunity to bring something different. You know what I mean, to the environment. Uh, of the restaurant scene and it came down to, you know, without great risks.

There's not great reward, right. And so I saw this as a risky thing to do, but I was like, I'm going to, uh, I'll throw myself into the Lebanese cuisine and learn and study as much as I can. And, you know, let's give it a try. Let's do it. And at the same time, you're, you're working and growing with these new partners that you met Greg and Roland, and you're trying to birth to restaurants and, and, you know, operate the small one as we're still trying to get the big one up and running and it's chaotic and tough, but we, you know, we, we made our way through thrilled.

That's a hell 

Eli Kulp: [00:48:59] of a team as a hell of a team. Uh, and you know, to have a developer, you know, that, that is. You know, essentially owns and builds the restaurant for you. It's a, that's a huge, that's a huge benefit. And, you know, while Lebanese and Italian food are not the same, there's sensibilities that are, they're relatively similar.

Yeah. You think you see that all across the, around the Mediterranean, um, you know, whether it's, you know, Spanish, you know, uh, or, you know, Southern Italian has influence of Northern African in it, you know, and Sicily, you know, you have your, your Greek, it's just all around the med training. There's, uh, there is that sort of cooking for life know, cooking for a good life and that mentality where it's, um, you know, they, they live to eat.

Nick Kennedy: [00:49:48] Yeah. I mean, I think I consider myself just like a student of cuisine and hospitality and like, that's, what I love to do is just learn more about food and the history and the culture of it. And so. Uh, you know, getting a chance, you know, to it's like, all right, here's another challenge, you know what I mean?

And like, you know, another place to make yourself uncomfortable to force yourself to grow. Uh, I really, you know, it was like, that's what I, that's what I'm going to do for myself. That's the next way I'm going to push myself and, you know, it's so cool to learn all the similarities and, and see how the food traveled.

And then you see how there's even like, then you start seeing similarities where you see similarities of Lebanese and Mexican cuisine. You know what I mean? And there's a lot of immigration and how the ingredients came from everywhere. I mean, how did tomatoes get to where they are and the beans and everything.

So, uh, you know, it was a challenge, but jumped into it and really enjoyed it. You know, 

Eli Kulp: [00:50:39] in Lebanese cuisine, you know, where, you know, Lebanese are considered some of the best cooks in the middle East, 

Nick Kennedy: [00:50:45] certainly by themselves, 

Eli Kulp: [00:50:47] you know, but by being put their influence on the region, and of course, Israel, you know, without, without the Lebanese influence is Israeli food would not be what it is 

Nick Kennedy: [00:50:56] today.

Well, we're not going to get into the politics and then put ownership on the food over there. But it's, you know, Lebanon and Beirut is sort of like a hub over there. And, you know, they, they, they have been, and they still are, a lot of travel comes between them. A lot of people meet up there. And so there's so many cultures of people that blend in with the Lebanese and so Armenian cuisine and obviously the Israelis and Egyptian.

So the food over there is, I mean, it's some of the most, I mean, historic in the world. So it just keeps on getting deeper and deeper. And so it's so much fun to like learn and research. 

Eli Kulp: [00:51:28] So tell me about the process of developing the menu, because I know you worked with. Uh, Roland's mother and, you know, and she seemed to really, uh, be, uh, I mean, she criticize or critique your cuisine as you were developing it.

Right. 

Nick Kennedy: [00:51:43] So, uh, Roland, and so also there's Natalie Cassie's, who's his sister as well. She has, she has a restaurant in Northern liberties and so they and their mother mod who's since passed away. But we, you know, we, we came up with a general framework and concept and, you know, along the way did a lot of research.

And then it was a lot of cooking with mod who had taught Natalie as well. But Maude was this matriarch of the family who had a restaurant in believe in Beirut. And then she had one in Liberia when they had to evacuate Beirut for a long time as well. And you had this woman that. Just, you know, amazingly elegant and, you know, and powerful and she could cook, you know, like that's what a grandmother, you know what I mean?

And, and in amazing ways where they just throw things together and it's delicious. And so, and as well, she was not shy of telling you when you did something wrong, you know, so you make something and say like, you know, present it and be all like proud of what you had done. And she would just say, no, no, no, no, no, this is wrong.

This is wrong. And you know what I mean? And then push you aside and show you how to make it, but it was, it wasn't bad that, you know, I love that sort of like, you know, she has so much experience and she knew exactly what it should be and, and you know, what sh how it should be done and yeah. 

Eli Kulp: [00:53:00] What a special experience for you too, because I'm sure, you know, as you know, I know you and, you know, I consider you a technician in the kitchen, you know, you're really.

Uh, you follow sort of a, um, a strict sort of, you have very good principles and the way you, the way you build the dish, you taste a dish. I've said this before to you that, you know, um, I remember you would taste everything twice. You know, the sauce you've tasted once you taste it again. And I don't know if you still do that or not.

I'm sure you do, but, uh, you know, I always was in awe of that. And you could see that, you know, mentally, how you work through, uh, you know, whether, whether each item of that dish is, is holding, is holding up and belongs where it, where it goes. And the, I imagine your job, you know, here you are with this incredible pedigree of working in, you know, three-star Michelin restaurants, four-star New York times restaurants, and then you're learning from.

A grandmother or a mom who learned, you know, sort of the rustic nature of, of what metric measuring your food is, and, and cooking from the soul. You must have been almost like conduit between taking the, the true essence of that food, but yet translating it into a way that works in a fine dining restaurant in America today.

Nick Kennedy: [00:54:29] Exactly. I mean, that, and that sort of started at Del Posto when we were trying to, you know, find these, that, that soul of what the dishes and what the experiences, how would you translate it? And, you know, a lot of that was done on our own, or we're working with LAR with Mark and. Trying to research that, you know, luckily we had mod who could show me, you know, show me that, that sort of, that way of what, how it was done, you know, and how it is done.

And it was just fantastic too. Like she could, uh, uh, I'm totally okay with her telling me yelling at me or, you know, she would not yell, but she was very firm and strict forward to that. But I love that because I knew like I was being shown amazing, amazing knowledge of, uh, her history that's passed down from her other family members and, and you know, that opportunity to learn from her was amazing.

That was cool. 

Eli Kulp: [00:55:19] So what are, I mean, explain to people who haven't been to Syria, what, what is that like? What is, what, what are people going to experience when they go there? 

Nick Kennedy: [00:55:28] So Sariah is, it's a beautiful restaurant and enrolling loved the design and, and we, we helped out, it's a lot of the memories of his home in Beirut.

Um, so you'll see like little, you know, filigrees on the window. That was the banister of his house growing up. Um, and so it just, there's a lot of touches and the design is very personal. It's very personal restaurant all around. You come in there and there's energy though. Cause the kitchen's open and we have 12 foot, a 12 foot long charcoal grill, which is like the heart of the kitchen along with this other oven that we cook all the pita in a minute.

So you come in and you feel the energy and you see the fire and then you see people working in the kitchen. Um, and you know, in non COVID times, you know, you. Bar's full and the restaurant's full has this amazing energy of people and the food. You know, we want it to be refined and the quality of ingredients and the techniques, but it's, you know, we want it to be casual and fun and not pretentious.

And we don't want you to have to think about it. And, you know, I think a lot of people don't know what Lebanese food is and, and that's, you know, we wanted them to not have to think about it and just eat things that just say, wow, this is delicious. And then I want to know more about it. So we, you know, we start with that as a concept and the menu is built around this sort of classic classic Lebanese restaurant framework of mezze, which are dishes that are meant to be shared, uh, around the table.

And. You have your sort of inner you're homeless and you're  muhammara and , and Taboola, and there's, you know, tons of other ones and they have slightly more composed appetizers, but we're not trying to be classical French or the new American style, but it's all meant for sharing and combining together. I mean, the whole point is that you take a little bit of the hummus and you mix it with a little bit of, you know, the.

The Batara Hora, these crispy fried potatoes, you sort of mix and match and combine different flavors. And it all goes well together. It's really high in acid. It's all very vegetable focused, a lot of delicious olive oil use lots of olive oil, and you just feel really, really good, healthy as you're eating it and after you've eaten it.

And that was one of the things that we just really enjoyed as we were developing everything. I 

Eli Kulp: [00:57:39] mean, you can't deny that the timing was also great with the way that people were being exposed to that style of cooking, whether it was a HOV or, you know, other parts of the country being, you know, Israeli cuisine, really taking focus and taking root, um, people being proud of, of cooking that food.

And just the general idea that people want to eat a certain way. And they want to feel a certain way after they eat. They don't want to feel heavy or, you know, like the food is cumbersome. You don't want to feel very, um, light and refreshing and your food is. Definitely, you know, I'm an acid guy in the O as far as you know, it's important to have the dish and your food represents those, those high notes.

Nick Kennedy: [00:58:19] That's one of the things I wanted to, you know, as we were opening these restaurants, like one of my key things is I wanted to, you know, have a restaurant and build a restaurant was where I wanted to eat. And so, you know, having worked at some French restaurants and having to taste the butter sauce, you know, like a hundred times throughout the night, you know what I mean?

And like, that's not what I want to do. And I certainly liked going out to experience those places, but those places are, I feel like are, you know, special occasions or once every couple of months. And so I wanted to create places where I felt like I could come back to eat. You know, every week and the food that they're, it's a REA really has that I think, you know, it's, it's, you can, I eat every day from there to try the food and just because I enjoy it and you can eat, you know, vegetarian or vegan very, very easily.

And a lot of times that's what I'm finding myself craving, just so I feel more helpful, you know, and what they can 

Eli Kulp: [00:59:09] do with vegetables and grains and, uh, you know, in, in those cuisines is, is fantastic. 

Nick Kennedy: [00:59:15] Yeah. And so, and you know, the other big part of that, you know, obviously the ingredients and the olive oil is the charcoal grill.

That's the heart of the restaurant. 

Eli Kulp: [00:59:24] We, we, that's a custom grill, like, right. Yeah. I actually 

Nick Kennedy: [00:59:27] went to London to work with the company that designed it and yeah, it's beautiful. It's an, it's basically this large line that's easily variable of. That we can, we use two different types of charcoal and we have the ability to, yeah, we can cook skewers.

We have these baskets that we use, like saute pans. We have traditional grills create all these different layers and levels. And that grill is going from 7:00 AM in the morning until 12 o'clock at night. Because first thing in the morning, we have our prep guys come in. They like the charcoal and we're just throwing all the whole vegetables on directly on the coals to cook in the embers.

So, 

Eli Kulp: [01:00:06] uh, what kind of charcoals are you using? Where are you getting them from? We're going, uh, we 

Nick Kennedy: [01:00:09] have, uh, a natural lump charcoal Humphreys, which is from PA and then we have a ton, which is a compressed Thai style charcoal. 

Eli Kulp: [01:00:17] Is that the one? Um, what's his name, uh, was bringing over from Thailand pock pocket pocket.

Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, it's great that, you know, you had this opportunity to do saran and people just, I mean, love, love, love that restaurant. Um, how does ticket in town, uh, and. But then, you know, you, you, as a restaurant group, you're like, you want to keep growing because you know, when you have, you know, when you have more than one person running a company, you know, you got mouths to feed, Greg's got mouths to feed rolls, got mouths to feed, and you you're you're, you know, that you're not done with just two restaurants.

Right. And you guys grew and your next step was, uh, working with Joe Videa. Right. Uh, opening that up and that's, that's a home run. Yeah. How was it working with Joe? Because Joe doesn't strike me as somebody who's, uh, going to sort of fit into a structured environment, so to speak. I'm assuming you had to give them a lot of 

Nick Kennedy: [01:01:18] leeway.

Oh, absolutely. I mean, Joe is, Joe is Joe and that's what makes him awesome. And he's, he's brilliant and he thinks differently. And, uh, you know, which is, was a challenge for us to sort of understand that in a way. And we're, we're, we think we're open-minded, but we're all inherently not. And so, you know, he thinks about things differently and there's been a lot of things along the way that, you know, you know, he was absolutely right on it.

And I loved that I was wrong. You know what I mean is, cause it's 

Eli Kulp: [01:01:45] like, what's an example of that. 

Nick Kennedy: [01:01:47] He, he wanted this art piece inside the restaurant of this cloud, uh, light and it's like, okay, we're here, it's a pizzeria. And we have a budget and like, you know, it's expensive and we're like, you know, we're crunching.

And we're like, you know, value engineering here or there. And he's like, it's important. You know what I mean? And it's like, is it really kind of just, you know, there, wasn't a good picture of it. You couldn't tell what it is. And even then it doesn't look that expensive, but you know, he understands art and experience, you know, a lot, like all those other great restaurants we were talking about before.

And so. You know, he saw it in a vision. He was absolutely right. You know what I mean? 

Eli Kulp: [01:02:22] And now I mean, people, every photo you see is with somebody with that, that cloud light behind 

Nick Kennedy: [01:02:28] you, it's iconic. You know what I mean? And there's also, there's so little in the space and he designed it and did a fantastic job with that.

And like, that's that, I think it all works together. And if it wasn't there, it wouldn't 

Eli Kulp: [01:02:38] work. How did that conversation start? Because, you know, Joe and people listening go back to, I think he's the fifth or six podcasts we did here was the Joe. And, um, you know, he marches to his own drum beat. And how did that conversation start of taking his little pizzeria corner?

Cornerstore doing 40 pies a night into taking it into a larger brick and mortar space and like, and you guys being involved to 

help. 

Nick Kennedy: [01:03:05] Yeah. I don't know exactly how it started. I mean, Joe, I lived, uh, you know, Joe's in Fishtown and I lived like, not even. 20 feet away from his original shop. And our first restaurant was 20 feet in the other direction.

So I would walk by his window every, every morning and every night when I was going home. And so he, his, his lease was landing, you know, ending up as well. He was in that position where he was having to be there every day to do every single thing. That's the challenge of having a very tiny restaurant, you sort of handcuffed to the stove.

And, uh, you know, he saw that, I think that he saw, you know, he wanted something different and obviously he got best pizza in America. Tons of people were throwing out opportunities to him all over the place. I'm sure he could have gone anywhere. He wanted and done anything he wanted. Uh, I think he saw that what we were doing in Fishtown and, and saw what Sariah was at that time and saw that we as owners, myself, Greg, and, and rolling, you know, we were like there every day, like in the trenches, you know what I mean?

Just like he was and saw what kind of operators we were and, and saw an opportunity. Loves Fishtown and Roland had a, another property in Fishtown, which he had shown Joe and he loved. And it's that, you know, another one of those things where it's, it's not what, like, if, you know, if Joe hadn't said that we probably wouldn't have done the pizzeria there because it's this nondescript building with an entrance on an alley, which is like, you would never open a restaurant there, but Joe's like, this is what we, this is what I wanted.

This is what we need to do. And he was right. And that's one of those things where it's, the way he thinks is, is really brilliant. He thinks at a different way. It's really great to be around people like that because it challenges you and makes you question what you think. 

Eli Kulp: [01:04:43] Yeah, yeah. With you guys and what Greg Greg does.

And, you know, he's a, he's a huge one. He's 

Nick Kennedy: [01:04:49] taught us so much, you know what I mean about that as well. And he's, he's, you know, another one person that loves food and loves to eat and as a, is a great cook as well. And so it's just, you know, it's great to surround yourselves and that same way of like building a team of people and apartment with people and you learn more from them.

Eli Kulp: [01:05:10] Everyone part of the interrupts. Uh, we're going to talk about one of our great sponsors. One of the things I'm most excited about one of the really coolest invention I've seen come on the market for restaurants is the dry ager. We all know there are fewer pleasures greater than sitting down in a gorgeous dining room and cutting into beautiful dried steak.

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Uh, you know, now you guys have Contessa, um, and, uh, which is in a new direction, right. You know, looking at Mexico, right. For, for, for the, um, influence, you know, as you're you guys, basically what you're doing, you're building a very eclectic group of restaurants. And it takes a lot to manage that and make sure that the vision for each one is being, um, adhered to.

Yeah. How, how do you do that for leadership styles, a chef having from know, uh, Lebanese cuisine over to Mexican food, maybe going over to R and D to make sure that, uh, the menu there is where it needs to be. How do you, how do you do that? And I want to talk a little bit about your leadership style and how to manage different teams with different aspects.

I know you have, you know, a team of, of, uh, you know, cooks from Mexico, you know, doing the food over at, um, Contessa. How out, how have you succeeded in doing that? 

Nick Kennedy: [01:08:17] Um, well, It's a journey. You know, I don't think I'm an expert leader. It's one of those things where it's, you know, it's always that goal to be better and to be better for our teams.

And, you know, the more you grow as a chef, the less you're actually doing the cooking and the more you're guiding and teaching people and trying to lay a framework. And so, you know, the other part of, you know, growing was that we were trying to give opportunities for our team and, and allow them to grow with us because you don't want, you know, they need growth that they want to continue to develop and they want opportunities.

And so, and we want to keep these people as well. Cause that's, we love working with them and we know their talents. And so I think it's, uh, you know, it's, it's trying to have a clear vision. It's all about communicating and, uh, it's, you know, a lot of times as a cook and as a chef, no, no one teaches you that, or explains that to you as I was going out, I've learned that I'm trying to teach that to everyone along the way that communicating all these other skills that, you know, I had to sort of.

Bumble my way in forced my way to learn. I'm trying to get them to know sooner and better, but it's how do you communicate, you know, a vision and clearly about what our expectations, what our goals are, and also, you know, what's going right and what's going wrong and how are we going to do this? You know, how are we going to work our way through these challenges?

Right? And so communication and as much as possible and having a structure and then, you know, hiring good people and, and trusting them and giving them the, the ability to do their job, 

Eli Kulp: [01:09:46] right. The, what was the impetus for Contessa as far as going that way? And I, I can't help, but think that with Greg's experience working for star and Star's success of really creating, not just a good restaurant to come eat at, but an experience, you know, whether you're talking about, you know, a Mexican restaurant or a Chinese restaurant or French restaurant, Or Italian restaurant or, you know, uh, brasserie, you know, creating more of the experience, uh, from, and, and his, his, uh, portfolio of restaurants being that.

Do you find that sort of the vision for you guys as well about sort of creating an experience and then making sure the food is, is living up to that? 

Nick Kennedy: [01:10:34] Um, sort of, I mean, I don't think that's where we, we, we started there, although, you know, we have some different, you know, different concepts that we are doing.

I think it started like, you know, going back, I was like, you know, at Syria, like, you know, on the expo, you're sort of, you know, working there. And I was thinking, you know, just thinking about food in general and like, thinking about what do I want to eat? What do I want to cook? And isn't this, you know, just to learn about and do.

And so, um, Mexican cuisine, there was some other chefs that were sort of becoming more popular and you could see and learn more about those things. And, you know, I was thinking about like, what do I, what do I want to eat? What do I, you know, find that that's missing, that I would really love to be able to have, you know what I mean?

And, you know, to Mexican cuisine seemed like something, you know, at first thought interesting, or let me dip my toe in here and, and basically then just jumped in and just did a ton of research. I mean, just study. I mean, I wish I, if I'd studied it as much in school, I have a dog bachelor, you know, a doctorate or something like that.

Right. But I just, I love it. You know what I mean? And so, and I've worked, we've had the, the, really the, the luxury, the fortunate to work with amazing chefs and cooks of Latin descent and a Mexican descent along the way from when I first started working in New York city or two, when I first worked in and Ringo's New Jersey.

And so I worked with all these amazing chefs that, and saw their cooked and saw their passion and saw that same soulfulness and the flavor of the food that I'd seen in the tank who seen that I seen in Lebanese cuisine. I saw that it could be very vegetal focused and very helpful if you then if you go back and, and, and see the history and see, they didn't have a lot of, you know, they didn't have a lot of animal fats and it was also a very like chili based and based around the corn.

And so you don't have gluten as well, but you have all these amazing flavors with the chilies and spices. So it's just something that intrigued me and, you know, you start going down the rabbit hole and then you learn about corn and, and Nixon realization and, and what a real tortilla is. And, uh, you, you go to those simple things again.

I mean, that's what Sariah was. It's like, what's the simple, you know, center of it all that's built around there and Sariah it's the charcoal grill and the PETA and, and the message is focusing on those, those things, the chickpeas, you know what I mean? The Hamas, and it's such a simple thing, but it's so hard to get.

Right. And certainly on a, on a larger scale and, uh, for, you know, for Mexican cuisine, just like learning about the tortilla and it's, it's intoxicating when you, when you learn about that, And then the salsa, then you think, Oh, let me just, you know, get some really great, you know, ingredients and vegetables and mixing them together.

It was just, what is so exciting. 

Eli Kulp: [01:13:14] I mean, yes, you, you, you, you are, you're blessed at this point to have opportunity to say, I want to learn about this and you know, you have the thirst for knowledge and that's something that, you know, the great chefs always have, you know, and you never want to stop learning.

You never want to, you never want to get stagnant. And you know, this day and age, a generation ago to me, chefs would be like, you know, I'm going to do this cuisine, this cuisine, this cuisine, it's more you think of, you know, Danielle and, you know, Boulay, and you know, these guys have dedicated their lives to, you know, cookie one style of food.

And you know, this is, uh, this is, uh, a newer. Newer experience for chefs and, you know, that's, that's an amazing opportunity for you to be able to do that. 

Nick Kennedy: [01:13:58] Yeah. I mean, it all, it all based on the team that we have and the ability to do that, you know what I mean? The one to start off too. So build SRE to the point where we had a team that allowed me to like, take some time out, you know what I mean?

And spend some time, you know, away from Syria and the daily thing, to be able to grow myself and to think about other opportunities. And then as we moved into Syria, I mean, into Condesa, you know, finding great people and, you know, and learning and involving them in the process and learning from them as well.

Eli Kulp: [01:14:27] That's cool. That's really cool. So one of the, one of the number one problems in our industry, and it's, it's been sort of, um, w coming down down the pike, it feels like for a number of years and it's sort of hitting its, uh, it was, it seems like the crescendo of, of, you know, where the stress lies in our, in our restaurant is labor and.

With COVID, you know, so many people were laid off in your head and you're like, well, we should have more cooks than we need at this point to be filling these spots. What, what are, what are the challenges with labor for you and how do you think restaurants? How can, how can this crisis of, of never having enough people feel, it feels like, and also finding people that are really dedicated.

What are some of the successes that, you know, the traits that you have that, that maybe you're more successful at it? Or, and how do we get past this crisis? 

Nick Kennedy: [01:15:23] Yeah, I mean, that's, I mean, even, you know, before COVID, uh, you know, that was one of our, always our main focuses and our challenge and the day-to-day, you know, managing of the restaurants and COVID exacerbated that, um, it, it, it, it's something that's been growing.

I mean, the restaurant. Business model is a difficult one. I mean, you run down the basic scenarios of 30% food costs and 30% labor costs and 30% variable costs. Then you're left with, you know, 10% plus all the other things and the taxes and other things come out of that very historically very, very low profit margins and the most highest risk business there is.

Um, and you know, along the way, prices for ingredients and costs of, you know, along the way have just been going up and, uh, you know, fuel charges get added on to our food bills. And so your deliveries, you know, those costs are going up. And we, I don't think as restaurant tours, we've been able to increase our prices.

We're very nervous about our guests value experience, and we're very nervous about, I don't like to call it competition, but it's, you know, we don't want to price ourselves out of attracting that guests. We need high volumes to succeed. And so if you ever see a restaurant that's. You know, half full, you know what I mean?

They're probably not, you know, on a, on a, on the sort of prime nights, they're probably not going to be around for too much longer. Correct. And so you're always, you know, you're, we're not fighting with other restaurants. I don't think we're ever competing with other restaurants, but we're fighting within the ecosystem to stay alive.

And that's a constant thing with a restaurant because we feel like it's every day it's so important, every guest and every service. Um, so it's, it's a challenge and it's just been getting tougher and it was a hesitancy to raise prices. And so, you know, I think we're at this point where we're trying to figure out, like, how do we, how do we create something differently?

And, you know, Danny Meyer tried it in New York city with, you know, the tip included so he could pay all the staff more, fairly and equitably across the board and it didn't succeed. And that was tough to watch. I was very hopeful thinking that Danny could take that and it would catch on and it would spread to other places.

Yes. Um, so you know what we're trying to think of, like, how do we. I, you know, really creatively and differently, how do we create more benefits in a, in a more, you know, equitable workplace? How do we make it better for our, our staff and, and, and, you know, as a, you know, we always want to be a positive, happy work environment, but, you know, how can we create it in a long-term?

And so, you know, how do we, you see different restaurants in different ways that are, can connect the employees to the, the business and they have very low turnover. And so, like, how do we, you know, figure out some way where we can share profits? You know what I mean, with our employees? You might talk that you might say that sounds like a great idea, but if you haven't paid back your investors yet, you know what I mean, 

Eli Kulp: [01:18:14] hard to convince everybody, uh, 

Nick Kennedy: [01:18:16] yeah.

And then how do you, you still have a huge amount of debt. And so there is no profits to necessarily share with the employees in a way, right? 

Eli Kulp: [01:18:22] You touched on it a little bit, the, you know, the environment or the culture that, that you established within your restaurants and, you know, great leaders, we'll, we'll find.

Different ways to, um, you know, unique ways that they can keep their staff because staff is number one, you know, it's all starts with them. If they're not happy, you know, they're, if they're stressed out, the customer will feel it. Uh, your bottom line will eventually feel it. So creating that culture as a, as a chef and, you know, chefs, aren't just, we're not just in our kitchen, we're a part of the entire team, you know, including the front of the house.

So being able to communicate that the expectation and getting people involved and feeling like they're a part of it and, you know, sort of lead by example is our keys, you know, and then, you know, the options of how do we pay the, pay the staff to make it more equitable, you know, you and I have, we've had some pretty deep conversations about this, uh, you know, within the group of different restaurant tourism, you know, finding ways, whether it's through, you know, service charge, model, uh, tipping included model, figure out a way to make it more equitable.

Um, as an industry and I think everybody's fighting through this right now. It's gonna be very, it's gonna be very interesting to see how we can do this. And, you know, people look at COVID as an opportunities to change it, but in reality, it's easier said than done. I think that's what we came up against that wall of, you know, it's not one size fits all and you know, whether somebody does 20%, um, gratuity included or, you know, service charge, you know, there's all these, these potential pitfalls you might not see.

Yeah. 

Nick Kennedy: [01:20:00] And you know, th the other challenge is that, you know, where the restaurants are so risky to begin with, and then you're trying to do this change, you know, of, of, you know, of the model somehow of, you know, adding a service charge. And it's, it's difficult to, to go against the grain in that way. And it's not because we don't want to.

You know, risk it to, to make our employees lives better. Like that would be our number one goal, make our, our happiest thing. It's, it's, it's one we want to, these are the, these are people that we, this is the reason why we go to work every day. Honestly, like seeing the guys smile and the teams smiles, I come in and talking, having those personal conversations.

That's what makes it so great. And it makes it, you know, we go to battle with these, uh, with these, with our team every day and it's, it's them together that makes it worthwhile. So we, we absolutely want to support them, have better opportunities. And that's why we do the things, but there's a risk there and it's even more risk when you're, when you're the only one going out there.

So if we could have a massive restaurants or, you know, that's what I was hoping for Danny, because he is such a leader, right. It carries so much weight and everyone in the industry was watching it. And so as an independent restaurant Tori, to like to try something drastically different, you know, You had to put your neck out there, you know, and it's not just, it it's, it's a lot of money.

It's a lot of investors it's, you know, debt to purveyor is it's. So you have that weight on you. And I think a lot of people don't understand that as, as an entrepreneur. Um, and you know, for a restaurant restaurants churn an amazing amount of sales and money in the ecosystem that they support of all the vendors and, and the people different, you know, along the way, the amount of employees that we employ directly and indirectly from between delivery drivers.

So it's, it's a big change to try to move that. And it's a huge risk and it's something that we were as entrepreneurs, like on our shoulders to know that you're responsible for paying all these people. And it's, it's scary. 

Eli Kulp: [01:21:57] Yeah. And it's, it's one of those things where, you know, if you're, if you're the first one to do it, I mean, it's, it's such a challenge and.

You know, I still hope I still have hope for the future that, you know, restaurants will figure out a way to work together to you to sort of distribute that risk amongst everybody and be able to find ways to challenge the status quo as far as you know, how we're able to charge for, you know, the experiences in our restaurant.

Um, and because, you know, like you said, cost of food is getting higher. You know, you want to use great products. You want to support these local ecosystems where there's independent, um, you know, cheesemakers or farmers, or, you know, fishermen, all those, all those different people that make, make the whole ecosystem work.

But it's, it's definitely a challenge and there's no clear answer now. It really isn't.

Well, yeah, I gotta say this was, this was great. Um, uh, learning about your history was, was something that. Yeah, I'm sure we talked about it, you know, eight years, how long ago has a business? We it's been probably 10 

Nick Kennedy: [01:23:09] years. Yeah. 10 years now, maybe even more 

Eli Kulp: [01:23:12] six or 10 or 11 years since we, we really spent a lot of time together in the kitchen.

So, you know, hearing your story and, and you know, how, how you came up and, you know, these amazing opportunities that you had. It's, it's, it's really great. And, you know, as chefs at our age now, and, you know, we're, we're sort of the, we're getting to be the older dogs and, and, you know, passing on that, that knowledge and those, you know, your, your, your, your skills and, you know, mentoring a young chefs and cooks, you know, it's really, it's really what it's all about.

Now. These for me is what it's about and passing on that knowledge. And, but I love a love that you're not settling. I love that you're continuing to put yourself in uncomfortable positions and succeeding at it. And making sure that, um, you know, it's not just about what's on the plate, but how it's built the soul of the food, you know, touching, getting in touch with that.

And you do, you do a very, very well. 

Nick Kennedy: [01:24:09] Okay. Thank you very much. You know, I have always, you know, ever since I've worked with you, I've always seen you as an amazing chef and, and person, and I've seen the way you work and the way you carry yourself and how you've grown and developed in a you're always someone that I looked up to as well.

You know what I mean? And I was like, there's so much, you know, it's great to see one of the things about this industry. There's always someone that's better than you and in different ways. And I love that and I love to find those people so I can learn from them as well. So I think I've learned to watch seeing you grow as well.

And thank you for having, I 

Eli Kulp: [01:24:37] appreciate that. I appreciate that. But before we go, we have to do the 11 question session, right? So we can put you in the hot seat. Okay. Uh, three words that would describe you as a young cook coming up in the industry, quiet, 

Nick Kennedy: [01:24:53] focused. And I was, uh, I was packed over my space territory, territorial.

Exactly. You couldn't come onto my station. You know what I mean? I was like, I owned it around it. Yeah. 

Eli Kulp: [01:25:07] Yeah. Uh, three words that describe 

Nick Kennedy: [01:25:09] you today. I think my wife would probably choose different ones, but, uh, I try to be focused, analytical and 

Eli Kulp: [01:25:21] using data to help succeed. Yeah, 

Nick Kennedy: [01:25:23] absolutely. Always trying to analyze everything from every different side.

I don't know. I'm still, I'm so quiet. You know what I mean? And I'm not a big talker, but a and I like to listen, 

Eli Kulp: [01:25:31] you go about your business. Yeah, for sure. And that's something I always loved about you as well, just that, you know, you're, you're, there's. There's always that sort of mystery, like what the hell is next thing.

And, uh, you know sure. But you know, now that you have, you know, you probably have a hundred employees and who you definitely have to communicate though. That's all be 

Nick Kennedy: [01:25:52] successful. I'm not a big talker, but that's one of the things you have to do. You know, you got to put yourself and do the things that you're 

Eli Kulp: [01:25:58] your beast.

I thought the word curious would be come up with, come up because you know, you are, you're, you're incredibly curious about, you know, learning, learning, learning. So that's cool. If you had to work in a fast food restaurant, you had no choice, your company went bankrupt and, uh, you know, you had to, you had to figure something out.

What would you 

Nick Kennedy: [01:26:17] choose? I think it would be shake shack, shake shack, honestly. Like I love the shake, shack, burger, and experience. And like, that's my little, like one of my guilty pleasures is to like sneak away and have a burger and a beer and a fry, like find myself or, you know, so I think they like. They do it really, really well.

And I'm, I'm amazed by that speaking of Danny 

Eli Kulp: [01:26:39] Meyer, right? Yeah. I was just had that conversation last night. I was telling somebody the story about, you know, that little hot dog cart that started in Madison square park and how it developed into what it is today. All right. Your, uh, your most valued kitchen tool, uh, let's say, besides your knife, 

Nick Kennedy: [01:26:57] uh, that'd be my spoon, my Coon spoon, and you know, which we, you know, growing up in, in like the French kitchens, you were never allowed to use tongs or anything like that.

Cause you would damage the, the, the flash or whatever. You know what I mean? Now we 

Eli Kulp: [01:27:11] spoon is such a versatile tool and people don't understand. I have a box of 12 kin spins at my house and we just pulled out two of them yesterday because people don't know what the can spoon is. K U N Z it's Greg Koons is a famous chef that developed his very specific design of a spoon so that chefs in restaurants can use it as great for plating sauces.

Roasting meats. Um, it's, it's just, uh, it's a very valued tool and most you, you always have a couple of them in your memory and, you know, people would steal, it was just, you know, it's a nightmare. And yet to be, you'd be very territorial with couldn't 

Nick Kennedy: [01:27:49] spoons. Yeah. I might have one of yours. Eli. 

Eli Kulp: [01:27:52] I have a few Missy that's for sure.

That's for sure. All right. The, um, a great place in Philadelphia, just kind of chill out that you've found. 

Nick Kennedy: [01:28:02] Uh, I love the oyster house. I mean, like that's one of those things, you know, as you go along, I just want simple things and the quality of the oysters and, you know, to get a, you know, a gin martini or a stout and just, I mean, great hospitality, great people, great quality.

That's what I've been around a long time. And that's what I, that's what I love. I love restaurants that have been around for a long time. That's respected so much there for a reason. 

Eli Kulp: [01:28:26] They're there for a reason. Uh, if you're not at work, what are you doing? 

Nick Kennedy: [01:28:31] Um, I'm with my family, uh, or if I'm allowed to sneak away, um, fly fishing or riding 

Eli Kulp: [01:28:37] my bike.

Nice. And you said you're a, you're making the move out to the suburbs. Are you ready for that 

Nick Kennedy: [01:28:43] daily commute? Not really. I'm going to be putting your podcast on there, your 

Eli Kulp: [01:28:48] favorite season to cook in 

Nick Kennedy: [01:28:50] a fall. I think because you still have like the end of summer products coming in, tomatoes are hanging on the vine and that's that the temperature and the smell and the air, and you have all these, you know, that sort of change.

Exciting. Yeah. It's 

Eli Kulp: [01:29:05] things have peaked. Yeah. You know, and you're coming down to the slide out of the head. I mean personally spring, I mean, but it's really a toss up between them. I mean, spring is frustrating in this, especially in this area, you know, because you think, you know, now the weather's warm, you should have these.

Beautiful products in hand, 

Nick Kennedy: [01:29:24] but it's fleeting, you know, you want, you want those peas and they're not ready yet. And you want the, you want to put the ramps and the peas together, but sometimes it doesn't work out. 

Eli Kulp: [01:29:32] And then before you know it it's summer. Yeah. So it feels like weeks, sometime you have a for spring.

I just love it. Cause it's like restarting. Yeah. It's refreshing. It's resetting the expectation. What is the first thing? If you could change anything in our industry would be the first thing of many I'm. Sure. But what would you change 

Nick Kennedy: [01:29:53] equal pay between the front of the house and the back of the house, have an equal level playing field and be able to pay all the great, you know, cooks and dishwashers or whatever.

Right, right, right. Right. 

Eli Kulp: [01:30:05] If you're going to go out to dinner and have a really exceptional dinner maze with the wife or something, where are you going to go and 

Nick Kennedy: [01:30:13] anywhere, anywhere, anywhere in the world, 

Eli Kulp: [01:30:15] or let's say in Philly and Philly, keep it 

Nick Kennedy: [01:30:18] local. Um, I love Colleen with Knuck and I've had some great meals at Vernick fish.

I mean the last meal before the most recent shutdown I was at Vernick fish. And they've just ever since they've opened, they keep on getting better and better and really great food. Right. 

Eli Kulp: [01:30:34] And, uh, you know, Greg is somebody, I think we all respect. What's your biggest fear, 

Nick Kennedy: [01:30:39] failure. You don't want to disappoint or fail you and your chef.

You don't want to fail the guests to you don't want to fall behind or, you know, or as you go along the way, it's that sort of constant thought in your back. 

Eli Kulp: [01:30:52] Okay. Let's say this besides fear, what is something that really motivates you? 

Nick Kennedy: [01:30:58] I think it's the, uh, it's the teaching and seeing other people grow.

Uh, you know, I remember when we were at Del Posto, I was doing the fish and, you know, counting times, whatever there was this dishwasher, I think his name was Gambino and you know, like super nice guy, always a smile on his face. And it's like, Okay. Let's like, let's give it a chance. And so I basically both pulled up and took them underneath my wing and never no experience or whatever, and just, you know, to be able to teach somebody when they're appreciative and when they take it and they see him grow and it was just awesome.

But like, you love working when you, when you're able to share that knowledge and you see people appreciate it, you know what I mean? And you, you, you know, you learn from them as you're doing it and you learn of how they become a better teacher as well. So you it's a two way street. So where's the Gambino now, do you know?

I don't know. I think it went back to Mexico, but he was, yeah, he was awesome. And I just, I loved that experience to see him and just his Paz positivity along the way. It's like, I felt, it felt great to be generous with their knowledge in that. And when you have someone that's so positive and energetic about it.

Eli Kulp: [01:31:58] Cool. Last question. If you could share a meal with anyone pastor present, who would it be? 

Nick Kennedy: [01:32:06] I think Benjamin Franklin. I mean, we're, we're here in Philadelphia. There's a great biography about him as well. And I love history in general. And like that guy is like amazing, like amazing. It doesn't seem real, all the things that sort of, he accomplished and experienced during his lifetime and being here in Philadelphia.

I mean, that'd be amazing now with them. 

Eli Kulp: [01:32:23] It's great. You walk the footsteps of him, you know, every day, especially I live in little cities, so it's like all around me. Very, very cool. Well, Nick, this was fantastic. Thank you so much. I wish you all the luck, um, you know, trying times right now, but yeah, I think with your team and.

You know, you you'll, we'll 

Nick Kennedy: [01:32:42] figure it out. Well, we have an amazing team and we would not be where we are without them. And it's amazing city. So we're, we're, you know, we're, we're just hopeful and we're working every day and that's it. 

Eli Kulp: [01:32:52] Thanks for listening to the chef radio podcast. If you'd like to support the show, please leave us a review.

Wherever you listen to your podcast, it helps others find the show and allows us to continue to make great content. The chef radio podcast is produced by radio kismet post-production and sound designed by studio D podcast production. And I am your host, Eli called.