Food & Travel Writer Adam Erace

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Adam Erace is a freelance writer and restaurant critic who has written for Courier Post, Philly Weekly, Philly City Paper, as well as national magazines such as Food and Wine, Bon Appetit, Travel and Leisure, Details, and Fortune.

In addition to his magazine writing, he is also the co-author of several cookbooks, most of which are dedicated to recipes and stories of Philadelphia restaurants and culture.

Eli discusses Adam’s love for his home neighborhood of South Philly, his career path in journalism, the current landscape of the Philly dining scene, his favorite Jersey Shore food, and much more.

More info at www.adamerace.com

Adam Erace Of The Courier Post

Eli Kulp: [00:00:00] Hey chef radio listeners. Before we get to the show, I got to tell you about this brand new sponsor. We have, I'm really excited to announce that singer equipment company is now a partner with the chef radio podcast. Singer has been around a long time. They are born here in Philadelphia. They have been a big part of the growth in the city for a very long time.

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Hey guys, Eli here. Uh, thanks for tuning into another chef radio podcast. Today. We have, uh, Adam Marotta is our guest today and he does a lot of, uh, either food, journalism, travel writing, uh, freelancing. So he's, you know, he's done Esquire, he's done, um, you know, national food and wine magazine. Uh, but he's also a local work.

He's worked with a couple of great chefs here, Nick Elmi and Joey Baldino and their cookbook. They wrote some beautiful cookbooks together. So, you know, Eric is somebody who I remember from early on. Uh, he was reviewing, I think he was the first one to review me in Philadelphia. And thankfully he, he liked the food.

But since then, you know, he's, he's sort of broken out and he's kind of taken the lead on really what's going on in Philadelphia. What's happening in the, in the food world. He's reliable. He's a huge enthusiast, grew up in south Philly and you know, he really, um, he keeps trumpeting, you know, what Philadelphia cuisine is and, and what it's all about.

And, and he's somebody who's really reliable and knowing what's going on in the food world. So I was really happy that he agreed to come on board. Like I said, a little bit different. We're switching it up, but there's some good stories in here. And Adam is a, is a great guy. You follow him and he's gonna, he's gonna, you know, really be able to talk really eloquently about what's going on in the food world today, especially in Philadelphia, like I said, as always, thanks for your support.

Um, metal stars, you know, those likes those, whatever they are, uh, it gets a show noticed. So. Appreciate people out there spreading the word. My God. Like I can't go anywhere lately. And everybody's like, oh, by the way, I'm listening to your podcasts. So-and-so recommended it. So thank you to everybody for going out there and spreading the word and, you know, keeping this alive and going.

So without further ado here is Adam 

Adam Erace: [00:04:01] rachev.

Eli Kulp: [00:04:17] Is the chef radio podcast

Adam Erace: [00:04:22] each week, groundbreaking chef talks and chef talks, uh, 

Eli Kulp: [00:04:27] chef, chef cooking, hospitality 

Adam Erace: [00:04:30] and wireman food. Is that really what it stands for? I never really knew that liver to you, straight from the 

Eli Kulp: [00:04:35] minds of the people who shaped the way we 

Adam Erace: [00:04:37] eat, it had to believe in the possibility of food over 

Eli Kulp: [00:04:41] to going through these talks, these ideas and more on the chef radio podcast.

Everybody welcome back to the chef radio podcast to gorgeous day outside, gorgeous spring day. It's beautiful. And I have an amazing guests. Adam  how are you, bud? 

Adam Erace: [00:05:04] I am so good. It is a beautiful day. It makes me really happy to be out and about outside 

Eli Kulp: [00:05:09] the house. That's almost short time for you, right? It's 

Adam Erace: [00:05:11] almost short time.

I mean, short time. Yeah, but for real, uh, yeah, we'll be headed down there pretty soon. So 

Eli Kulp: [00:05:18] if, if somebody who who's a from here says, I'm going to go down to the shore. What are you, what are you going immediately? It's like, I was 

Adam Erace: [00:05:25] going to say, where's that right? Yeah. There's 

Eli Kulp: [00:05:28] no, there's no, uh, 

Adam Erace: [00:05:30] there's no article or 

Eli Kulp: [00:05:31] preposition in that sense.

Down the shore, right down the shore. So it was Adam. Uh, you are somebody who is sort of embedded in the Philadelphia dining scene. You are not a chef. You are not a manager. You are not an owner of restaurants, but you are an enthusiast and you are a, uh, travel and food writer and you've developed your career.

Out of the Philadelphia dining scene. That's really why I wanted to talk to you today about, is just kind of like what's happening. What are you seeing in the dining scene? Uh, what are you seeing nationally or even globally that that is, is cool, that you're excited about not only your food writer, but you're also critic, you know, you've written for multiple magazines national, or just here in Philadelphia, you wrote, I think the first review that ever came out in Philadelphia with about me.

Yeah. And he actually sent me that article this morning. It was pretty funny. I was coming 

Adam Erace: [00:06:24] through that through the back issues, like in my bed at seven 30. Okay. 

Eli Kulp: [00:06:29] That was cool. Going back to 2012. Yeah. I remember you coming in actually. And you were by yourself at least time that I saw you. And so immediately that sort of like sets off a red flag and seeing you kind of sitting there eating, and I was like, mm, better put a little more shine on this, these dishes that they're coming out, this guy, I think it was a positive review.

I didn't, I didn't actually reread it, but you, me, you 

Adam Erace: [00:06:53] didn't really read it as soon as I sent it 

Eli Kulp: [00:06:54] to you. I know I was what's up at Drexel food lab. Getting a demo for these crazy ovens are called . And, uh, I'm going to be actually talking about them in one of my, uh, ad spots, but. It's this crazy technology out of Italy.

It's like, it's basically an iPhone for an oven. It's just ha doesn't even make sense in my head. I'm sitting there like flabbergasted by stuff there, but the stuff that they're doing, but anyways, it's I was up there today and you sent me that and I just didn't have time. So, uh, you know, I'll, I'll reread it later today, maybe.

Yeah, 

Adam Erace: [00:07:29] it was certainly a positive review. I remember the first time I went in, I think I sat at the bar. I don't know if you guys maybe only had to have a separate like bar snacks menu, or maybe I was there before dinner service and it was just like a, like a pre dinner. 

Eli Kulp: [00:07:44] We might've had some going on that 

Adam Erace: [00:07:46] I remember.

And I had, it was like a chicken nugget. I don't know if you called it that or not chicken nuggets, but it was like a nice, like original iPhone sized chicken nugget. And it was so crispy. It was like a, like an Agra Dolce or something like that. And I was like, this is so good. Like, I love this. This is awesome.

And yeah. And then I had gone back and had like the full experience. Yeah. I mean, that was like such a heady. And exciting time in Philadelphia dining, for sure. I mean that that's like you and, and Peter Serpico and Greg Vernick like when all that was just coming down the pipeline, it was a really, really thrilling time to be writing about.

Yeah. I was going to 

Eli Kulp: [00:08:22] ask you what, I mean, from an outsider's perspective, those three that you mentioned were not sort of from Philadelphia, you know, Philadelphia often has a chip on his shoulder and doesn't like, particularly people coming in and telling it what to do and how to do it. And especially what to eat.

Uh, we've seen that with, you know, even like John George is like came down and you know, that whole thing. What was that like? Because Philadelphia is always a little skeptical of, of new, it seems like overall, like I was accepted by not only the chef community, but also the. The general sort of dining public, uh, Greg fields, the same white out Peter's same way, you know, then he had like, Nick, Elmi kind of doing his thing, uh, after like top chef or before top chef.

I don't remember what it was. And then who else was there? Some, uh, some 

Adam Erace: [00:09:06] other guys that were, I remember, uh, John Carl from Nord, I think came back from Chicago, like about that same time. And there may have been like one or two others, but it was definitely like a very well-defined moment. Like. 2012, 2011, 2013.

I would say that that span of time was, was really, really influential. 

Eli Kulp: [00:09:25] I think in general, the dining scene took a big leap, right? Because not only is kind of like it allowed other chefs to maybe become more enthusiastic or experimental or whatever it was because, you know, in Philadelphia you have such a lineage of Lubbock fan Vetri Eloqua.

People were doing their own unique food, but it was, you could almost trace the lineage back through the flavors 

Adam Erace: [00:09:48] or the style, right? Yeah. I think that's totally true. And, you know, reopening with, with you and, and. Vernick and other restaurants, you know, you had this new class of restaurants that other young chefs could come up, you know, where has it always been?

Like the Vetri the law, uh, you know, like Marcy tourneys restaurants, like those were turning out all, all the chefs who would then go on to do their own thing. So when you all had opened, it was like this whole other school or classroom, for lack of a better word for chefs to young chefs to come up through and then open their, their own places.

Now, 

Eli Kulp: [00:10:22] uh, let's talk about you a little bit. You mentioned early south Philly, right? Yeah. Born and raised south Philadelphia live there. You don't have the accent as much as, maybe you're maybe as much as you go to private, did you go to private school? I went to Catholic school. Okay. 

Adam Erace: [00:10:39] Yeah. I went to St.

Monica's Catholic school, first grade to eighth grade. And then I went to St. John Newman high school, which has since merged with St. Maria. Goretti plenty of people with stronger 

Eli Kulp: [00:10:48] hands. How do you say the word? W a T E R. Water. Come on. It's I always define it. There's a new show. I'm Pell, Mer from east town.

Bayer, so good water in the 

Adam Erace: [00:11:03] winter. Yeah. But you know, but that's, that's the Delco access. 

Eli Kulp: [00:11:08] I was watching it with a girl from Delco. Oh really? Yeah. And, and she said water. I'm like, did you hear that? And she goes, what? She said water. She goes, no, I didn't hear that. Yeah, of course. She didn't hear it. Cause I thought she said water.

It's 

Adam Erace: [00:11:20] funny. It's like, there's, it's like a Venn diagram. Right? So like Southwest accent, like Delco accent, which is interesting though, is that my wife and I were talking about this the other day, her family, family's all from Northeast Philly. And there's a ton of overlap with the Northeast Philly accent and the Delco accent.

They tend to sound a lot more the same than the south Philly accent. Yeah. It comes out sometimes. 

Eli Kulp: [00:11:45] Uh, no, I love it. I love it. I mean, south Philly itself, I mean, come on, like it's its own little city and not only the history there and the culture of the Italian immigrants now, a lot of like great Mexican influence, uh, this going on down there.

How would you describe south Philly to somebody from the outside? Uh, the didn't know about it. My, my first, my first, uh, John into south Philly was a little sandwich tour, uh, by, uh, one of the local food writers of the time here. And that was awesome. But how would you describe, 

Adam Erace: [00:12:22] you know, Philadelphia is, is, uh, you know, quilt of neighborhoods or, or whatever the euphemism is, but south Philly is one of those neighborhoods and within it, there are so many different parts.

So, you know, south Philly at. You know, 10th and Bigler is very different from south Philly at second and Fernand, which is where I just moved in second street, which is very different from 11th and Morris off pat shank, which is where I just moved from and where my family has lived for three generations.

So it's like 

Eli Kulp: [00:12:54] the neighborhood. Yeah. 

Adam Erace: [00:12:55] My mom grew up at 10th and Mifflin. It's also where her, uh, mother grew up. So on my mom's side, my maternal grandparents, they came to America from, from Calabria in like 1920. Okay. They bought a house in south Philly. They raised their five kids there. Five, I think. Yeah.

And then my grandmother and grandfather got married and moved into that house and remained at that house. And they raised my mom and her aunt. So that was like a multi-generational household with the grandparents still there. And then two of my mom's aunts living there as well. And that, you know, they, they were there until, until that my last great aunt passed away.

So, which was two years ago. So that's where my mom is from 10th and Mifflin. My dad is from fifth and mountain fifth and Maurice that area. So, you know, they're both went to St. Nick's. Um, you know, that they, I believe they met in, in grade school or in high school, but they're right around the same age and high school sweethearts.

So yeah, my family has been there for quite a while, so we just left. I mean, literally this week we just sold our house. Oh really? I want to live in the Maurice. Yeah. This week we're right across from, uh, Mike's barbecue where right across from Mike's barbecue, which is not a bad thing. No, it's not. Uh, although my couch smells like smoke.

Yeah. Delicious smoke. You 

Eli Kulp: [00:14:16] get that a, you get that. 

Adam Erace: [00:14:18] Well, Mike is outside smoking cause he has the rig outside. It just like WAFs right over. It's it's interesting. Um, before that, you know, Barbara Cola, their first brick and mortar was there, which was amazing. Right. So I've, I've had really good food across the street from me for a long time.

Uh, but we just moved, uh, just this week over to second street. Wow. Yeah. 

Eli Kulp: [00:14:34] Cool. Now is that called two street? Is that there, like during like the 

Adam Erace: [00:14:39] based on weather, like as your street is like actually. An authentic nickname or not. Uh, there are signs on second street that say two street, but my, a friend of mine from high school, it was the second street.

Or I like posted something on Instagram and tagged the two street. And he was like, it's second street. Not too straight. I said, you don't live here anymore. I call it what I want it 

Eli Kulp: [00:14:57] nice. So the new year's day during the, like the Mummers like, no, I 

Adam Erace: [00:15:01] will not be there for that. That will be down the shore on December 30th, that area.

Right. That's the, are all the members, clubs. Um, uh, but that's, uh, that's a bit much for me. So I'll do camp to 

Eli Kulp: [00:15:14] Wildwood, right. And first year you lock your doors. Right. 

Adam Erace: [00:15:18] Uh, but yeah, but going back to what you had asked, uh, south Philly is such a combination of different neighborhoods and I think that's what makes it really special.

You know, it's always been a neighborhood of immigrants. So, you know, whether it was Jews from Eastern Europe who really came over first and then Irish Italians, as we move through the early 19 hundreds, Vietnamese really in the eighties. Oh yeah. I think I read that we have the largest Vietnamese population outside of, uh, Texas and California.

Oh, really? Isn't I'll tell you what, 

Eli Kulp: [00:15:51] like the Vietnamese food here compared to like New York, for example, so much better, really New York has like the worst Vietnamese food. I mean, it's a lot of times it's like Chinese or, or, or the Vietnamese are trying to assimilate with the Chinese because they Chinatown you find it here and there, but it's not like that.

There's no competition. So like, it feels like they're not trying or something. I don't know, come down to Philadelphia and having like full Saigon, like within five minute drive from my apartment. 

Adam Erace: [00:16:23] Great. Yeah. I mean, it's, we love for 75 and you get into in, in the nineties also, there were, you know, a lot of Indonesian immigrants, so that's a hard Dina open.

Yeah. That's like one of my favorite places to go like to this day. It's so good. Um, and they're like awesome people. So I think, you know, if you had to sum up what a south Philly and how do I describe it to somebody who's not from here? I mean, it's a city, it's a part of the city where it's just like food is kind of top priority, you know?

And so embedded in the, in the DNA of that part of town. I mean, we, we write, we wrote about this a lot in the Polisi cookbook, you know, it's an Italian cookbook in Italian American cookbook, but you know, in, in telling the story of south Philly, it's not just about people who came from Italy. It's about all the people who came before them and after them and continue to come.

And now, you know, on its best days, this is, uh, a place that welcomes people from, from other cultures and on its worst days, it's a, it's an area that needs to be reminded that everybody who was here was once an immigrant from another culture that was not welcomed. Well, 

Eli Kulp: [00:17:31] touch on that a little bit. Like what did, what, what are some of the things you see that.

On on its worst day. Is it more the territorial of like, this is attack, this is like south Philly's Italian and they stick to that, that sort of pride, or give me an example. I think it's, 

Adam Erace: [00:17:49] you know, to be generous, pride is certainly I think plays a role and like that can be really great and, and have a place for a neighborhood to be, to be proud of who you are and where you come from.

And this is, you know, where my family is and where my roots are. I feel that, but the, the idea of ownership, I own this, this is mine. Like, no, it's fucking not, it's not yours. It's like, it's a city. Anybody can live here. Yeah. So, you know, it's an area that's been home to many different people, coexisting, but it's also is very segregated.

You know what I mean? Up until recently until maybe like the past 20 years it's been very segregated, so yeah. You know, you can run into that like turf type stuff, which is, which is real nonsense. Um, and I think it's, it's been certainly changing for the better, uh, if we talk about just like passionate in general, talk about somewhere that has changed just so much.

Yeah. 

Eli Kulp: [00:18:46] What was that was, what was that? Even 10 years ago? 

Adam Erace: [00:18:49] Yeah, I mean, so I grew up going to patch up. Like I grew up in, in, um, the St. Monica neighborhood, uh, parish, you know, I grew up in Georgia state's would be the neighborhood. Um, and that's kind of just like for people who don't know, it would be kind of south and west of, uh, like Newbold and point breeze.

So just on the west side of passionate avenue, going down to Oregon avenue and then crossing over to the stadiums, the past chunk was our commercial car. Right. So like I would get out of school and we would go down to passion and can go to like the stores and buy like shiny guest jeans and go to like the record bar and get like.

Mixed CDs of like clubs, songs are being played at like Egypt on Delaware avenue, where we go on like 17 to 24 nights. Right. So that was really a place that I went to in terms of the avenue, you know, we would walk to my grandma's house and we'd stop at me and CUSOs cheese shop and he just passed away.

Unfortunately. Yeah, we would pick up mozzarella, like wrapped in the wax paper, like having a snack and get water ice there. And that's still my favorite lemon water ice in the city. So, so pat shank is, as a place was very much in, by the 

Eli Kulp: [00:20:00] way, the lemon is the flavor of a water ice, like even like going into like Queens and New York.

Is that right? Oh yeah. I mean the lemon water ice is just forget cherry, forget all that, but live in water. Ice is where it's at. 

Adam Erace: [00:20:14] I think you're serious about food. If you like, if lemon water ice is your favorite water. 

Eli Kulp: [00:20:18] Uh, uh, when I worked at Theresa and, uh, Tracy in New York, the lasting you would get as you're sort of to go was a little.

PIL PIL cup people cook up of lemon water. I love that. That's awesome. And we'd make it fresh every day. Like, and it was, it was sort of Mario Carbone sort of oh, to his neighborhood. 

Adam Erace: [00:20:38] So yeah. So, so pass shank is a place as, as you know, definitely been a constant in my life. And when we talk about like how it's grown from then, you know, and this is like an, in like the late nineties and early two thousands to me before that it was like even more significant as like a kind of center of, of Italian-American business and commerce, like where, you know, parents would go and my grandparents would go to like buy food and like, you know, communion dresses.

And like, I would get my school uniforms from, from there. So then, you know, it's changed so much and food wise, I would, you know, really put that at parody. So, which I don't know if you ever went there. Lynn never, never did. Yeah. Lynn Rinaldo's restaurant, you know, she was she's from the neighborhood and she opened parody.

So I don't, I can't say what year. But that was the first kind of restaurant of ambition beyond the veal parm situation, which like, I love your porn. Like no disrespect to that at all, but Lynn and then labor too, I think open soon after, and then it was like, things started to happen on pat shank and you know, I've been there or I was there for 10 years.

Yeah. I mean, it was like the place to be in that kind of like late 2010 or early 2000 tens, mid 2010. So, I mean, it was the place and, you know, we've, I had a kind of a front row seat seeing it change, which was really, really exciting because you know, growing up, you know, we talk about Philadelphia, it's having a chip on our shoulder or whatever, but I think in south Philly, that's even more the case when you are constantly presented with, you know, people making assumptions about you, based on where you're from being in south Philly is like, that's like, right.

You know, like I 

Eli Kulp: [00:22:16] just did earlier, I totally made this option. So, you know, I've I've I was checking out my assumption. Let's put it that way. You're all good. 

Adam Erace: [00:22:28] But yeah, I mean like, you know, in dealing with, you know, people from other parts of the city is a professional, like there's always this, like this kind of like south Philly is beneath, you know, the rest of the city or whatever.

That's certainly changed because, you know, around that time, it, it started to be like, oh, you're from south Philly that that's cool. Like I go there to eat at restaurants and all this stuff. So it's, it's been interesting to see it change really from the inside out. And now it's more kind of dynamic than ever.

And one thing I think is interesting about passionate that I, that I've seen firsthand, you know, when we talk about like the turf wars or whatever, like I did not really experience much of that as somebody living there in terms of like the clash between the old guard and the new guard, um, I think the too gracious of people from other parts of the city and other parts of wherever was pretty smooth and organic and slow and natural, you know, over the course of decades.

So that's like something that I always noticed is that, you know, what I really loved about living around Pascha, cause that you had on one block, you know, people who lived there, all their lives and then people who are from, you know, other parts of the city than other parts of the country. So I thought that was always one of the strongest points of, uh, of that neighborhood.

Eli Kulp: [00:23:49] Hey everybody, we're taking a quick break. I got Emilio here, uh, from the Bruno brothers, Amelia, how you doing? Fantastic. Great. Great to see you. Um, you guys have some great stuff going on in. You know, these virtual, cheesy events I'm hearing about, or they're going gangbusters, what what's going on, because I know sort of some of that since the pandemic hit, right, you've had to pivot a little bit.

Yeah. Less than we've, 

Emilio Mignucci: [00:24:15] you know, pre pandemic. We had a lot of events scheduled, Mayo pandemic happens, those events all cancel, but you know, the, these, you know, we're doing a lot of corporate business and events and they transitioned to these virtual events and the virtual events have been gone so well that they become a really, um, great part of our business.

And, you know, People just get in touch with our corporate account team or, or our catering team, or, you know, the easiest way is just go to corporate@thebrunodotcomorjustdobruno.com and just ask, uh, you know, for some of these events, but we booked them three, four or five nights a week. They're basically like, uh, happy hours.

And, you know, we send out, I mean, it's, it's really easy. We, you know, you reserve the date, we send out whatever, you know, tasting kit or box that you are interested in. And then, uh, we send you a link. Yeah, it's a log lawn for, um, for like a zoom meeting through it and, and, you know, we help you celebrate, 

Eli Kulp: [00:25:17] so you have a cheesemonger that will be there and it could be for any special occasion, could be something for the office.

Just get the morale up. 

Emilio Mignucci: [00:25:25] Yeah. Yeah. We've done them for families. We've done them for different offices. We've done. Gallas the Phillies just hired us a few weeks ago to do one for them. We, you know, we did a lunch for Jose Garces, a launch for his website and stuff. Can we just go? That was fun, you know, like, so, you know, listen, all of our friends and buddies, like, you know, and, and, and a lot of them, like if.

If not me then Alex or haunted, like you get, you know, some of our really cool, listen, it's fun for us as marketers to get on there and to teach people and like, you know, we're not having as much to that right. Currently. So, uh, yeah, they, they work out right. Really, really great. We've done them for like families, just like people during the holidays only to get together with their families and they couldn't travel.

So 

Eli Kulp: [00:26:09] yeah, it was just high-risk so you guys, we got some big events coming up. I mean, you got mother's day coming up. Yeah, for sure. Father's day you have. Um, yeah, so 

Emilio Mignucci: [00:26:17] we incorporated like, like a special monthly one. So we were doing like this month. Well, you know, Valentine's day was choosing chocolate. There you go.

We're doing a, um, we're doing a, um, a father's day with, um, like how to pair, um, uh, the whiskeys with cheese Roku and, you know, uh, a mother's day, brunch, cheeseboard, and delegates cheeses. We're doing like every month we have a, a seasonal or a special one planned for like the public. And so we'll take out a script, 50, 60 people up to a hundred, you know, randomly 

Eli Kulp: [00:26:53] so cool.

So people can just go to your website. They bruno.com the bruna.com and get signed up.

Well, I mean, how did growing up there sort of affect your career and going into food writing? Is there a thread that ties that together, or how did you sort of get into writing and then food writing and, and now you're, you know, you're sort of an authority, so to speak on, on Philadelphia and the, and the food 

Adam Erace: [00:27:24] here.

Yeah. Well, that's, that's very nice to be described as an authority. I don't know if I agree with you, but thanks. Um, yeah, I mean, I think that the thread that ties it together is it's like the kind of the one that you would assume is that, you know, growing up in an Italian American household, you know, food was like super important.

Food was central to, you know, every celebration and, and all that jazz. But I think for me, what made me want to go into food writing was a little bit more serendipitous in the fact that, you know, I started discovering restaurants, um, You know, I have an older cousin who's 10 years older than me. So when we were young, she was like the coolest, right.

And she would like take us out to all these places. And you know, when I was, you know, like a teenager, she would bring my brother and I, you know, we, we got dinner, right. And we would go to all these places and going out to dinner in the city in center city really is what made me fall in love with restaurants and restaurant culture and helped me to broaden my horizons in terms of my palette, because I was a super picky kid, Eli, I didn't eat anything.

Oh, really? Super picky. Like, I wouldn't thought no vegetables, nothing could touch on my plate. Like I, yeah. A string beans and mashed potatoes. And that was it. Like, I didn't need a salad. I didn't eat like spinach or anything, nothing like that. And I was just no fish, no seafood. Really. I was super, super picky until I was further along into my teens.

Right. And really, I think restaurants are, are a huge dessert. You want a credit to kind of getting me to, to broaden my experiences right. And brought on my palette. You know, I remember going to like Washington square and it was Steven Starr had opened that up. And Marcus Samuelson was the opening chef, right.

The meal. There was just like nothing I'd ever had. It was, I mean, from 2004, you know, braised, short ribs and like celery puree or whatever. But it was so interesting and so different, and that was, uh, kind of a pivotal experience for me in understanding this is restaurant food. And if you want to engage in this world, you know, interesting atmospheres and like kind of the, the romanticism behind restaurants, like, you know, you should experience, you should experience the food the way a chef intends and not, you know, make, try to make all kinds of accommodations.

Right. So, so I think like that those years going yeah, out to eat really were pivotal for me. And then when I was in college, I worked at a restaurant on 10th and Wolf. It was called Cucina. So, and it was like a little ish restaurant, 

Eli Kulp: [00:30:13] the child, so, yeah. Crazy, crazy, crazy. Yeah. 

Adam Erace: [00:30:16] Crazy kitchen. So my cousin and I worked there for like extra change, but the chef there.

Was was really talented. And like, his menu was certainly Italian to appeal to the neighborhood, but he also did things that I hadn't seen before. You know, he would do like a little like sashimi or a Crudo special, right. With like beautiful olive oil and sea salt. And he would make these like little lobster tails, unlike a truffled Madeira sauce.

Right. Like I had no idea, like what that, what does that aroma, like what, what is, this is what a truffle smells like. This is what white truffle oil. So let me not get, let me knock get it, twist it. But, you know, I had never really experienced, you know, those slavers before, so we will, we would make a little bit of money, you know, and then we'd go, we'd cut out at like nine 30 and we'd like, go eat somewhere after like in center city and just like spend all our money there.

So it was like, so stupid, like go out to eat, but it was, I was building this kind of education. That's the 

Eli Kulp: [00:31:09] epitome of a hand to mouth. So exactly. 

Adam Erace: [00:31:13] So I was, I was like building this, this kind of framework of, of learning about food and going to restaurants. Uh, and then I really got my start at Philadelphia magazine.

I was an intern there, uh, my junior year of college. Okay. So I worked with April white, who was the food editor for a very long time. There I worked in the food section. I was like, Hey bro. Like I like food. I like restaurants. You know, if you need help in this section, let me know. And I get an internship at Philadelphia magazine at that time was like 98% fact checking, like the top doctors list.

Right. But I did get to also, you know, to actual writing and reporting. And the first piece I had published was on a dessert restaurant in Atlantic city called Brulay. And I don't, I can't remember if there's a connection to really catering, which I think is John  maybe. And I went there and I like wrote like this little, this little writeup about it.

They had like this dish called. Strawberries Montezuma. And it was strawberries with like cilantro and like tequila or something like that. It was like, oh, it was so cool, you know, five or whatever. And, uh, 

Eli Kulp: [00:32:24] very 

Adam Erace: [00:32:24] often exactly. So that was like the first piece that I had published. So my clips that I had published are my internship were in the food realm, so that, you know, allowed me to springboard into a little more food writing.

You know, when I got done that internship, I didn't major in writing in college. I majored in marketing. So I didn't necessarily think that I wanted to work in publishing or in a magazine or newspaper setting like journalism particularly, or the newspaper vibe. My entree into writing was fiction. So writing wise, I was all about like narrative and vivid, vivid description and all that kind of stuff.

And that lend itself well to food writing. So I was like, I want to do that, but I didn't, I didn't want to work in a magazine or a newspaper. So I, when I graduated college, I was like, I'll just. My plan is to go into marketing, like creative branding and stuff like that. But I had these clips published from Philadelphia magazine and a friend of my parents knew that I had done some of this work and told me she had sent me an email or sent my aunt an email.

And then she passed it on to me that the courier post, which is the newspaper in New Jersey Camden county, was looking to hire a restaurant critic. And I was like, well, I can do that. That sounds great. Yeah. It's a freelance job. I don't have to be in, you know, in a newspaper sounds to be there, to do the job, um, you know, paid to go yeah.

Out to eat. Like, yeah, that sounds great. Yeah. Uh, so I applied for that job. I didn't put that I was on the application. I was 20. I didn't hear for weeks. And then I got a call from my former editor. She called me and left me a message. I was on spring break and Fort Lauderdale. Okay. Yeah. I made an appointment to interview with her.

I was late to the interview because, so the offices are on Cuthbert Boulevard and cherry hill MapQuest at the time. Right on my print out instructions map me to like, I'll say the address was like 300 north Cuthbert Boulevard. It mapped me to like  Boulevard. So I was like going to like freaking out. So I got, I made the interview, I got the job.

Um, and I was there for a really long time. So I was there maybe 10 years doing restaurant reviews for them first. It was myself and another critic who was a more seasoned reporter and we would go every other week. Okay. I would do Philly. He would do Jersey. And then he, he retired shortly thereafter and then I took over the whole thing.

Okay. And we would do restaurants every other week, Philly Jersey, Philly Jersey. After a couple of years, I got the job at Philadelphia weekly, which was, you know, is still around in, in, uh, in, uh, some strange guys of itself. Former self. Is it still 

Eli Kulp: [00:35:06] print? 

Adam Erace: [00:35:07] It's still print, but they've. I think they like are trying to be like, uh, the Breitbart of alt weeklies.

Oh, really? Now? Yeah. They tried to, they sh giving it like a real conservative. Okay. Okay. Um, so I became the restaurant critic there and was the critic there for a while. Um, and then became the critic at Philly city paper. So I was at Philly weekly from him before years. Then I went to city paper and was there for, you know, five years or something like that.

Did you stay with courier 

Eli Kulp: [00:35:40] postal? I did. I stayed 

Adam Erace: [00:35:41] with Kerry bars the whole time, the whole time. I mean, my editor, there was terrific and she took such a chance on me and, you know, so I felt very, very loyal to her. Right. Um, so yeah. So Kairos post the whole time, um, Philly, weekly city paper, I was at city paper.

I think one fork was when you came to focus. 

Eli Kulp: [00:36:01] Okay. 

Adam Erace: [00:36:02] Um, and then in the midst of, you know, kind of building. My portfolio is as a food writer, I was adding like, you know, jobs from other places. So, and that's when I started to break into the more national stuff. So writing for, for places like details magazine for a long time, until they shut down, you know, food and wine bone at travel and leisure, uh, up until the pandemic, I was doing a monthly restaurant review column for fortune magazine, which is based like, kind of all over the, all over the world, like wherever I was traveling, which was really exciting.

And from 2005 or 2006, until now, it's just been, you know, pretty much total freelancing, kind of in the food and travel space. Uh, I, you know, 

Eli Kulp: [00:36:51] and I C I can sort of, you know, just see your growth into, you know, some more of this national, even international. Yeah. And you've, you know, you've kind of built out a nice little career for yourself.

Um, I mean, now you're doing some of this international are, you know, prior to COVID, um, you know, are you, are you being paid to travel to these places or are you just traveling and then writing about the Moyer there? 

Adam Erace: [00:37:15] Yeah, that's a great question. It happens both ways. So, you know, when you're doing a travel piece, right?

Like, so sometimes I'll be like, Hey editor, Eli, I'm going to Montana. Right. I was there in September. I'm going to Montana. I'd love to report a story for you. Okay. Here's the, some of the stories that I have in mind, do you want to assign me something or you could contact me and be like, Hey Adam, We want to send you to Montana to report on this story.

So it goes both ways. Nice. Yeah. What were you doing in Montana? Uh, I was there for work, so I was, I was writing a story for a men's journal on glacier national park, uh, at, which was really, really fun. I'm like, not like I'm a, I'm a real city kid. So like for me, nature is like going to the shore and you're like sitting on the beach and swimming.

Right? Yeah. So this was like completely out of my comfort zone. It's not a trip that I would ever probably take because of the pandemic though. It's like, yeah. You know, can't really go to your, uh, you know, which is where if I had like 10 days, I used to go somewhere, like I'm going to, I'm going to go to Europe or somewhere else.

To have like almost 10 days, like in, on a trip in the United States, it was like a real, really different and a real luxury. So we went out there and we spent like three days in glacier hiking again, which is not something that I do. I like strapped on my Tims. And I was like, I guess this will work. Right.

Right. Ah, but it was beautiful. I loved it so much. And it really like surprised. I really surprised myself by how much I really thoroughly enjoyed it. Oh, nice. It's just stunningly. Beautiful. So I wrote like a big guide on like how to do the park. You know, if you're not like an expert. 

Eli Kulp: [00:39:01] And then, uh, food, there was no restaurant there to reef.

Yeah, there 

Adam Erace: [00:39:05] was at the, uh, the McDonald lodge, which is only McDonald's, uh, just inside the entrance of west glacier, but I wasn't reviewing that. I mean, I wrote about it. They had a really delicious elk burger with like a huckleberry aioli that was tasty, great restaurants. This is in the town of Whitefish.

Uh, so I, you know, went to a bunch of restaurants there and, and kind of filled out the, the story with that. But it wasn't like a restaurant specific story, but I did wind up writing a restaurant specific story for heated about how Montana was handling, uh, the pandemic and how serious and rigorous they were about it.

Because, you know, Montana obviously is, is a very red state, but you know, had a blue governor, a democratic governor at the time. I don't want to speak like, like I'm an expert on the state cause I'm not, but there's interesting contradictions politically in that state, you know what I mean? That's like big gun rights state, but also big open land protection state.

So like these things that don't, that people don't necessarily assume go together kind of do there. So it was interesting because it would be easy to assume that that this state would not be super serious about COVID, but I mean, they were, and 

Eli Kulp: [00:40:17] they have so many, I mean, wide open spaces. I mean, geez. 

Adam Erace: [00:40:19] So I mean, totally great for natural social distancing, but even like the restaurants, restaurants that are just like restaurants here, it was like, this is earlier in the pandemic.

Right. They were like, it was like masks everywhere, sanitizer, everywhere tablespace data, where they were so serious about it. Uh, it was really, it was really an interesting story to report because, you know, I had spent the summer in New Jersey where. It was way more lackadaisical, to be honest, you know what I mean?

Uh, and New Jersey, you know, even down at the shore where it's, it's way more purple, uh, you know, New Jersey is generally true blue state, so it was super interesting to kind of see that, that dynamic. And it makes you just think about, you know, you have to think a little bit bigger sometimes and not rely on what the easiest assumption is.

Right, right, right. So I was reporting that restaurant story down there, which was, which was really cool. 

Eli Kulp: [00:41:07] So, you know, food writing, I can go a lot of ways. And you've obviously done this now within the last four years, you've worked with a couple of local chefs and started writing cookbooks with them. Yeah.

Uh, how, how did that go with Nick Elmi and, and with, uh, Joey Baldino, how 

Adam Erace: [00:41:27] did that start? Yeah. How did the, the short answer is, how did it go? Is it went really, really well because I can't think of two guys with more integrity to, to work with, uh, just like two super. Super dudes, like just really loved every moment of working with them.

How did it go? So with the Laurel cookbook, I believe I approached Nick about that. I had done a couple book proposals before that hadn't gone anywhere, but I had an agent, a literary agent who had worked with, and I had said like, Hey, I think, you know, Nick, it'd be somebody really great to write a book.

And she's like, yeah, you know, that sounds, you know, really, really good. So I pitched Nick on it and he was on board. And then, you know, so the first step was writing the proposal. So we worked on a proposal and we sold the book to running press, which is, uh, a local publisher here. They're a division of hashtag, which is a big French company, but running press is based here in Philly and they picked it up.

And we, we wrote that book over the course of a year. Uh, and then as we began work on the Laurel book, my agent. Approached me about working with Joey to write the Polisi book. This is Claire Polino if you, yeah. Yeah. So Claire was doing PR for Joey. Okay. So she does, you know, she runs the PR and then she, he also has her literary agencies.

She was like, you know, I think you, we want to do a book for Polizzi, you know, Joey wants you to write it. Cause you're both south Philly guys you'll understand the cultural connection. And this was like, this was before police even opened Joey and I wrote a book hosel in like four weeks and it got bought quickly also by running press.

So we had contract delays with the Laurel book. So what wound up happening is that I was writing Laurel and poli and dinner at the club, the plea to book at the same exact time. So it was really hectic, but it was, it was a big workload, but it got done perfectly and on time, largely because I'm. Hyper organized as a freelancer.

Like I've just, I've always had to do that and manage multiple things, but also because Joey and Nick were just so great to work on top of it. Yeah. Yeah. 

Eli Kulp: [00:43:48] So, and if anybody listening right now is wondering who these guys are, they're both done a podcast with me. So you hear all about their stories as well.

Joey is Kenny grew up a little bit like you in a way, like you're very south Philadelphia, um, you know, kind of grew up on a, in a neighborhood of few block radius with family all around and, you know, and then opening Polizzi, uh, and the story behind that is just, I mean, it's unreal. Yeah. And it's been successful.

It's been ridiculously successful, super successful with the, you know, with the, um, the social club and all that. Yeah. 

Adam Erace: [00:44:27] I think, you know, w the reason that Joey wanted me to work. On on the book was because like, I, I get it. You know what I mean? I get all the references. There's no extra explaining. Like I could understand, you know, what he wanted to present and I could understand how important this was to him personally, because Pulizzi the cookbook.

And the restaurant is not just about the cookbook in the restaurant, 

Eli Kulp: [00:44:56] right aside about Joey specifically, either 

Adam Erace: [00:44:59] it's purposely not about you. Joey's whole thing. I mean, when he, when we worked on the book was, you know, it's not about me. It's not about me. I was like, well, it needs to be a little bit 

Eli Kulp: [00:45:08] about, well, he's such a humble guy and oh my God, he does, you know, attention for him is yup.

Yeah. He'd rather not 

Adam Erace: [00:45:15] have it. Yeah. Yeah. He's, he's allergic to attention it. Joey, doesn't see himself as like the chef, the owner. Of Polizzi and I don't want to put words in his mouth, but we've had multiple conversations about this. He feels like he's the steward or the caretaker of this institution, right?

Like, it's not, it's not about making money. It's not about Bon Appetit, hot 10 or whatever. It's about preserving this piece of his culture, our shared culture in a rapidly changing neighborhood in a rapidly changing city in a rapidly changing world. Right. So it's all about crystallizing this piece of history and preserving it, you know, for, for years to come.

Yeah. Which I think is just like, it's just a beautiful sentiment. And not often how we think of restaurants, 

Eli Kulp: [00:46:00] it's so unique in the sense that, um, for, for a chef to be able to have that opportunity. I mean, it's, it's really a one-off story. You don't hear about Italian social clubs that have been in the family and, you know, for 90 years and eventually all of a sudden.

You're handed this opportunity as your uncles in his last days and asking you to take this on and feeling that responsibility and only knowing that you're responsible, but figuring out a way to not tarnish the reputation, but bring it into today's world and ma sort of modernize it, but in a real authentic and genuine way completely.

Adam Erace: [00:46:42] I mean, that, that's totally accurate, like to, to be able to take this institution, as you said, you know, which always served food, but was by no means a restaurant to really retrofit the kitchen and have it open with all the spirit of itself and all the spirit of, of the generations that have spent time there within those walls.

But to be able to open it to a whole new group of people, an inclusive group of people, and to have it function as, as at a restaurant with just really top quality food is really special. Right, right, right, right, right. 

Eli Kulp: [00:47:20] So, I mean, what are you seeing right now in the Philadelphia dining scene? Um, I mean COVID aside, but it's hard to take COVID out of it.

There is the COVID aside, right? Try not to get hung up on it too much. What are you seeing that is surprising different, unique, um, exciting. Uh, w w what is your take on, uh, the scene in general? 

Adam Erace: [00:47:49] Yeah, I, I, it's a hard question to answer, because I don't know how to answer. What is the scene like in general, because we've had this last year, last 18 months or whatever.

So there's a L there's a big gap in continuity. When as, as you know, food writers, we, we. Look at trends and examine like where things are going, which is, there's a huge, it's like if you took a bridge and just like knocked it down into the water, and now there's no way to get from pre pandemic to post pandemic.

So the lack of continuity there is, is staggering. And even as somebody who writes about food, I find myself in a way disconnected, you know, from, from the act of going out to eat constantly. Now restaurants are open, of course, but it's still not the same as where it was before. So I struggle with reading the room and seeing, you know, where, where do we go from here?

I mean, if we want to pinpoint things like outdoor dining, obviously it's like has blossomed in, in a big way that I think is going to, is going to hopefully stay around. W do you like the strangers? Yeah, I mean, I do. I mean, Sometimes, I think they seem dangerous. 

Eli Kulp: [00:49:08] It's yeah. You know, like you're like in traffic.

Adam Erace: [00:49:11] Exactly. But I think, yeah, I think terrific. I mean, to reclaim spots for cars and put people there, I think is really special and I think is, is, uh, something that restaurants can leverage to add seats to small restaurants. You know, when we talk about like outdoor dining is like the savior of restaurants storing COVID.

I mean, well, that's nice. If, if you have an amount, a massive garden or like two prime sidewalks, like park, you know what I mean? Not to say the park has been saved by its robust outdoor seating. I don't want to imply that, but you know, the majority of restaurants are, 

Eli Kulp: [00:49:48] they have like. 250 seats outside.

That's a lot. Yeah. I mean, some restaurants don't have anything don't have any and maybe like the literally yeah, yeah. It's it's exactly. So you're on a walk up in a, in a row home and, you know, yeah, this is impossible. And these are the 

Adam Erace: [00:50:06] restaurants that, you know, you can make the easy case that these are the ones who really maybe are struggling the most because they're small and they're independent.

So I think that St Mary's or whatever, you know, they're being called, I think is, is a really great development. And one that I, I think we'll S we'll stay in the city, you know, I think hopefully the city has been more accommodating to restaurants and chefs, uh, restaurant owners and chefs in kind of helping them do what they need to do to make money, how they can.

I don't, I don't know if that's the case. I am assuming that's the case. 

Eli Kulp: [00:50:42] I think we're still in the honeymoon phase. I don't know what's going to happen. The last I heard is that these surgeries are guaranteed through 2021. Um, so that people can feel like they can invest because they are an investment.

Absolutely. Me, a lot of these are really, really well done. Some of them are horribly done, horribly done. Some are really well done. Uh, Stephen Starr. I mean, my God, some of the stuff you think there is a second dining room and, you know, so I think the least the investment will pay off for some, hopefully all.

And you know, long-term, I mean, I could see this kind of morphing into that. I think there'll be enough pushback and people will be like, all right, so he's going to chill out on their, on their regulations. But I think where it's coming up against eventually it's going to come get, come to a head. Is, are they, you know, are they safe?

Right? Are they, do they have. You know, proper access. I mean, I'm in a wheelchair, right. And so many of them are not wheelchair accessible, for example, uh, which is frustrating. And, you know, do they have, you know, fire safety, you know, life safety, you know, are they, are they up to code for that? So all these different things, I think this is where it's going to come.

I think also of course the city tax man always come with and, you know, figuring out ways to like, make money on this somehow, you know? Cause they are taking up parking spaces from somebody, people don't like that parking authority, you know, we all know that, um, well that, and also people in the neighborhoods, right.

So I mean, if you're in south Philly, parking is already like, yeah, people are parking in the medians 

Adam Erace: [00:52:28] like we had at Mike's barbecue. For example, Mike just was able to put a whole setup outside and like I'm super psyched for him. You know what I mean? Cause it's, it's been able to let him have seating back.

Right. But I'm sure there's plenty of neighbors who are like. Damn it, those are those spots, like we said earlier, you don't own that spot. That's not your spot. You know what I 

Eli Kulp: [00:52:46] mean? It's like south Philly, the snow storm. Yeah, exactly. Right. Everybody got their spots, their cones, their lawn chairs. I mean, I do that too.

Right. Like they don't take my spot. I dug this out. Don't even take it. So I 

Adam Erace: [00:52:59] hope, you know, those stick around if they can be safe and compliant because you know, for a restaurant that has 25 seats. Well, if you can, I mean, adding, you know, eight more or 10 more is not the be all end all, but I mean, it certainly makes an impact on, right.

Eli Kulp: [00:53:16] No doubt. 

Adam Erace: [00:53:17] Uh, so other things, you know, it's, it's hard to say, you know, what, what the city is going to look like dining wise when this is quote unquote, over, if it's ever fully over, um, you know, with vaccination rates and people getting. You know, more comfortable with indoor dining. I think, you know, we'll get back to some semblance of normal sooner rather than later.

But I think some, uh, some of the things that we've grown accustomed to are going to be here to stay. So I wonder what, what that's gonna look like in, in six months in a year. And are we going to see kind of the return to absolutely bonkers restaurant openings? Or is that time, is that done? You know what I mean?

Cause there was already talked before the pandemic about it. This is unsustainable. There's too many restaurants. There's nobody to work. The pandemic has just put the massive screeching brakes on that. But now as we're starting to come out of it, we're seeing, again, like there's, it's hard to get back of house in front of house help.

I just saw Sariah is doing like a $2,000 signing bonus for, for line 

Eli Kulp: [00:54:19] cooks that just speaks volumes about where the need is. And other restaurant owners are looking at them like. Are you sure you want to go down this path? You know what I mean? Like, yeah. What's the, what precedent is being set right now, um, as a community of restaurants and, you know, Nick, Kenny was the last podcast or second two ago.

Uh, and I love Nick and, you know, they're good operators and it just shows the desperation. They jumped right. In 2000, I was like, damn, is there, like, these are like 500 or something better, 

Adam Erace: [00:54:56] but you don't want to hear it's about like, who is that good, or who is that not good for? You know what I mean? What's precedent.

Are you setting, well, maybe not a great precedent for restaurant owners, but it's a good precedent for line cooks, 

Eli Kulp: [00:55:07] you know, absolutely shown the value of them. Yeah. Cooks dishwashers, you know, everybody knows these are the, you know, each of them is a very unique and special cog in the system that we, you know, we need to operate in without them.

We can't do what we want to do. Right. I mean, $2,000 a signing bonus. If I was a cook, I'd be like, wait a second. That's like, I can put that in my bank account. Yep. You're not 

on 

Adam Erace: [00:55:34] that. And then that brings in all the conversations of, you know, what changes are going to come in terms of how employees are treated, you know, what does the importance of benefits?

Packages look like vacation time, paid, vacation time, you know, mental health and all that stuff that we were talking about before this pandemic in the restaurant industry, but now is even more salient now. Um, how do you, how do you bring people to work at your restaurant, you know, with a competitive package that isn't going to bankrupt you as an owner, but it's also going to provide your staff like a real secure career because yeah.

People have said. I always thought that I could get a job in a restaurant no matter what happens, whatever hard times I fell on, I can always go bartend. I mean, I've said this to myself, like no matter what happens to me with when I started writing, you know, I, I said I would give myself a year as a freelancer to like make a living.

Right. And I was bartending at the time. So I was like, I can underwrite this year by bartending because I, you know, yes, it was no problem financially. And as long as I was writing and making, you know, a reasonable amount of money, I could always count on that bartending money. And if, if it got to a point where I was, you know, kind of too far out of my career, for my degree in college, I could always bind.

I can always bartend. And I think a lot of people think like, well, I can always go work in a restaurant. I can always just go cook. I can go serve. Um, I can bartend, but when a pandemic comes around, that closes restaurants. Like you realize that having a restaurant job or skills in the restaurant industry are not.

As endlessly accessible or secure, secure, that's the word I'm looking for as secure as you might've assumed, which is like a real, I think a real crazy wake-up 

Eli Kulp: [00:57:28] call. We'll definitely dent in the armor. Uh, and um, maybe more the dent and, you know, you hear culinary schools obviously are, are, are suffering.

You know, there's a lack of, um, turn out for those. The, which is going to be, is going to have a trickle down effect for staffing. Not that we only relied on corner schools, but these were the, you know, this day and age culinary schools are, are giving you the, the top employees rather than, you know, the employees that do this because they don't have any other skillset.

And this is the lowest barrier of entry. Um, which mean a lot of good chefs come up that way, but nowadays it's, it's thought of more of a profession. Yeah. So we, we do rely on, on these schools and these programs to supply us with, you know, new talent 

Adam Erace: [00:58:21] as a restaurant owner for you, are you, are you more inclined to take or to hire somebody who's come out of culinary school or to hire somebody has come out of another, another kitchen?

Is there any approvers trying 

Eli Kulp: [00:58:32] to hire someone with a heartbeat to be honest, but no seriously for, for a restaurant owner, a culinary school doesn't have a lot of weight. I would say the CIA, the corner Institute of America, you know, if you see somebody coming from there or, you know, one of the more higher end schools you might, you know, might take notice, however, the skill of that person.

We'll still be tested and that's really sort of the, the determination determining factor that's gonna, like, you're going to hire somebody, you know, and of course attitude and all these other things go into it. But I think it does help, uh, to a certain degree, but it's not the end all be all. Um, but this day and age, it's, it's almost like it's an expectation now versus 10, 15 years ago, it was like, oh, this person actually went to school for it.

You know? Uh, and you know, with, uh, with an industry that's been built on the backs of non-educated immigrant workforce, uh, you know, even before that, who was working in restaurants back in the seventies, I mean, w besides a very small handful of high-end restaurants are, it's always been. Oh, I fell into this, you know, it was always like, oh, I found it found me.

I didn't find it. I wasn't, I wasn't looking to become a chef or cook or whatever it was nowadays it's changed the amount of restaurants that were, seemed almost like it was an inevitable for it to crash was made possible because we had a relatively steady flow of talent coming to the industry. Right.

Yeah. People saw it on TV. Oh, it's sexy. It's fun. It's exciting. It's adrenaline, it's, you know, all these things so that, you know, you have this whole generation of, of kids that were raised on food network and cupcake battles. And, you know, whenever it was that this sort of made them interested in food.

Well, now that's dried up. Right. And now what are we going to do? Like we're definitely taking a major step two or three or four back. Because I was talking about this with somebody else as I was, I was checking out those new ovens. Ooh. Knox is like, we are looking at technology now to replace humans because how else do you do this?

And how do you simplify it so that, you know, you're first, second, third year employee into the industry can become your lead line. Cook, you know, were before it's like, yeah, he's spent a year or two on Garmo, you know? And then you maybe work your way up to hot apps. Well, nowadays, you know, two or three, four years in the industry, if you actually have a decent head on your shoulders, you're a sous chef.

Yeah. You know what I mean? You're not even a line cook anymore. So the, the, the level of, of education and, you know, building that repertoire of chefs these days, you know, it has become so shallow. You know, there's a depth into what, you know, other than a slight few of cooks who like. They know that, you know, they want to put the date, they want to see how the best restaurants in the market them for years and build their resume.

You know, that's not happening that much anymore. So I don't know. I don't know where it's going. I, you know, it's going to be a, it's going to be a very, very interesting time to see what the long-term effects are. 

Adam Erace: [01:01:58] Yeah.

Eli Kulp: [01:02:06] Everyone want to take a quick break and talk about one of our awesome sponsors, uh, were talking about Vitamix. Everybody knows Vitamix, right? It's ubiquitous in. So many kitchens, uh, around the country is something that you're introduced to when you first start, uh, working in a kitchen. And it's something that you're going to use almost daily, especially if you're a on vegetation or soup station, something like that, doing a lot of purees, blended oils, vinaigrettes, uh, these things do really do it.

All these, you know, the grind spices, they'll, they'll combine your ingredients together, whatever you want to do. Uh, Vitamix has, uh, really has really developed the, the finest machine in the kitchen for these type of tasks. Everybody knows the standard one is the Vitamix three. Uh, but did you know that they have other ones as well?

Let's say you're doing a fast casual concept, uh, or maybe a small cafe coffee shop bar, whatever it is that you're doing, or you're thinking about doing, and you want to serve blended drinks, but the Vitamix let's face it. It's loud. It's something that if you, if somebody is using the kitchen, you know it, but they also make a quiet version.

So you don't have to worry about that with your. With your guests, if you have open kitchen or a counter space or something like that, that you're using, it's not going to take away from the audience. Uh, then the other one is the XL. The XL blue is three times the amount of standard, uh, the standard Vitamix does.

And that's great. If you're doing large batches, we actually bought one of these for fork and high street. We were, we were going through so much soup and purees that we bought one and it was so worth it. I mean, the kitchen was a static using it. Uh, it doesn't get jammed up as much. It's a little stronger motor and it purees much larger portions.

So you can, you can cut down on a lot of your times in front of a Vitamix, uh, when using one. So if you're interested in purchasing one, our friend, Matt McKinney is happy to set you up with a demo, uh, either in your restaurant or up at Drexel food lab, where they can walk you through each one and show you firsthand the difference and how they can help you.

Okay. So after you listen to this, get ahold of Matt McKinney, he's our friend and sponsor of the show. Um, you can reach him at Matt M a T T at max mic. So that's M a X, M C k.com. Matt, Matt mix.com or you can call them directly or text them, whatever you want to do. (215) 514-8310. Let them know I sent you and enjoy the 

Adam Erace: [01:04:35] Vitamix.

I think one of the, the positive things that have come out of, of the pandemic in Philly, and this is the case in many cities, is all, you know, you would think this is a time where nobody would be interested in taking a risk or starting a business. Right? Sure. But you know, you're seeing it happening like.

All over the places and explosive rate as people who, you know, as pastry chefs who are out of work or, you know, cooks in other capacities. I mean, I can't even keep it in my head. How many, like Instagram pizza pop-ups there are right now, you know what I mean? It's like super exciting, which is great. 

Eli Kulp: [01:05:24] Yeah.

Because people always want pizza. Yeah. True. And, and somehow there's a market for it. No matter what you do. Yep. The 

Adam Erace: [01:05:30] cakes that you're saying, you know, the people are starting businesses, like, and I've, I've seen this, like I said, all over the country, I was in Maine, in, in December. And there was this amazing out of work pastry chef who was like doing pickups.

And she like met me at my hotel and I picked up this like amazing sweet woods or a fist, the name of, of the, the pop-up bakery, like this amazing salted. Mango tart. Um, and here in Philly, like second daughter baking out of Bach, like the most extraordinary brownies. Oh my gosh. Yeah, really fantastic. Like fudgy, crackly, tops, like nice sea salt on top, like absolutely awesome.

And second daughter, second daughter, second daughter, daughter, or daughters. I'm not sure if it's oral or not, but yeah. They bake out a Bach and, you know, beautiful cakes, uh, cookies. And just like I said, I've only had the brownies, but they were like the best brownies I've ever had. So it's, it's really, I think makes me feel optimistic that, you know, the spirit is still there for people to go out on a limb and, and start businesses, whether it's happening just by, you know, ambition or by necessity.

I think about the 2008 crash and the recession and how that spawned so many small businesses in the food space. You know, I think about when we had, when my brother and I had green aisle, you know, that came out of the recession when everybody was starting businesses. Because while you lost your nice cushy nervy secure job, and you wanted to do something that was more meaningful or, or out of necessity.

So I guess that, that makes sense that there is so much entrepreneurship right now, but I mean, the resiliency of people in the food industry is, is pretty, is pretty remarkable to see it showcased this way. No, I mean, 

Eli Kulp: [01:07:18] it's, the food industry itself has always had to be extremely versatile and quick on his feet.

You know, whether it's responding to trends, responding to, you know, um, you know, events like this, uh, other downturns market downturns, it contracts and expands. I think at a rate that allows it to, uh, maintain its effectiveness. Restaurants are never going to go out. Right, right. I think in general, it's easy for us by, oh my God.

The sky is falling. You know, restaurants are not going to be existing anymore. Uh, often people in our industry chefs were like, well, if you only want cheese cake, factory and olive garden and whatever, we're going to start charging more money, which is, there's a lot of truth to that, right? Like the cost of food is going up.

Yeah. Cost of labor is skyrocketing. I mean, we're talking about forget $15 minimum wage. Now you're paying cooks 15, 18, 20, $23, $2,000 signing bonuses. I just want, we're seeing right now. So the cost of doing businesses going up and up and up, and our margins are going down and down and down. Right. But somehow some way.

People do it. And who's going to suffer. Farmers are going to suffer, you know, the guys that are doing, um, Mia, local organics restaurants, people are having to sacrifice their own principles in order to survive. Right now, the idea of paying double for that organic carrot from a local farm, versus just keeping your lights on and paying your staff.

Yeah. That, that extra 2% or 3% a that's where people are that's, you know, that's where the trickle-down effect is going to, I think really hit home because the ball always rolls downhill. You know, who's going to be kind of crushed by that. It's hard to say it's hard to say long term. 

Adam Erace: [01:09:12] Well, it also goes into, uh, what is the true cost of food, whether it's at a grocery store, in a restaurant, we are artificially programmed to assume one price of.

A carrot or a pound of ground beef or whatever. Sure. And not know what the true cost of that is. And, and meaning cost in the, in the literal sense of like, what does a pound of ground beef really costs when it's raised correctly? Yes. As opposed to artificially cheapened by 11 different shortcuts and additives or whatever.

And then what is the cost of the labor and behind it, and 

Eli Kulp: [01:09:51] you dealt with this unsure green eyes for sure. Cause that's what your whole model is based on, right? Yeah. For sure. Bringing good, nutritious, well raised, well grown product to the 

Adam Erace: [01:10:03] neighborhood. Yeah. I mean, absolutely. That was, that was what we did.

It was all the, all the produce and the meat was all local. Uh, and it was hard, you know, when we opened in 20 2009, there was definitely a market for it because we wouldn't have done it if there wasn't. But there was definitely a lot of resistance that we almost spent even among our own family. I remember they were like, well, what do you mean?

Like. The cows eat grass and it's 10 it's $10 a pound. It was probably like $8 a pound at that point, you know? Uh, but there's just a massive amount of, of education about, you know, what, like I said, what is the true cost of this food and yeah, yeah. What, what it means to, to eat well. And you know, now we talk about grass fed ground beef, for example, right?

I've I've read about this before. Like when we opened in 2009, it was like such a niche thing, but now I can go to like Walmart on Delaware avenue and buy grass fed ground beef. At a fairly inexpensive price, which is, you know, not good for, uh, for a business like green Heil, because you know, it, it represents the commercialization, the corporatization of, of, of the food system in a way that's, that's already happened, but now it's happening natural, 

Eli Kulp: [01:11:17] right?

The big money is going to find, okay, where's this trend going? How do I capitalize on that? Exactly. And sort of blow out the little guys who've been, who've been studying that trend, 

Adam Erace: [01:11:27] but the, and then the flip side of that, it said it's also, it's really great because it improves access to better quality food, you know, for people who can't afford to pay $10, as 

Eli Kulp: [01:11:37] long as they're.

Plain honest and right. You know what I mean? Like you can't 

Adam Erace: [01:11:42] trust a lot of these guys. Right, right. Right. So, I mean, it's the kind of mainstreaming of, of organic and natural foods. It's just a fascinating frigging topic. Like it's, it's so loaded, a deep, more 

Eli Kulp: [01:11:55] free to write about. So what are you looking forward to the summer?

Down at the shore? Oh man. So what food-wise what's what's going to go on out of the shore. Like what do you, what is your routine? 

Adam Erace: [01:12:07] I have such a routine at the shore. It's funny in Philly. I'm so not regimented, uh, or it pre pandemic. I'm I'm not regimented about where I'm eating. Cause I'm eating out all the time for work.

Right. And for research. So now I'm pretty regimented in the city because only certain things are open and whatever down the shore I'm so regimented. I have like a mental list. Like I have, you know, three solid months to eat all these things. So the number one place that I look forward to opening. At the shore in Wildwood where my place is, is hooked up seafood.

It's a restaurant that's kind of on the road into wild, but so between the mainland and the island, uh, it's, it's on the docks. It's owned by the Brite family. Bill bright is a commercial fishermen. His wife, Michelle is the cook. And then they have their four kids who have pitched in at the restaurant, you know, since they were younger, it's a restaurant that I drove by one day, like 10 years ago and was like, oh, that place looks like it should be good.

But you know, places that look like they should be good are not always good. And down the shore. Well, there's, there is amazing food. There's also a ton of junk. I mean, like, you know, there's very busy restaurants, you know, the food is it's frozen. It's from Thailand, you know, it's not, it's not what you, what you want to eat.

This, 

Eli Kulp: [01:13:16] this family owns the fishery down there. Correct. 

Adam Erace: [01:13:19] So bill owns two boats. He primarily catches squid. That's like his, his, uh, bread and butter. Okay. But he also catches, um, AHI. Sword. My, he, John Dory, lots of really beautiful fish him and some of his friends that he buys from. Sure. And the food is like it's, here's the fish we have today, blackened or grilled two sides, usually like really nice skin on French fries.

Lacy onion rings a little like Caesar salad with like a delicious, homemade dressing, sweet Jersey corn on the cob. And that's like, All I want down the shore. It's just so perfect there. Name it again, hooked up seafood, hooked up seafood. Their uncle raises clams. So their clams are just perfect and are full of lemon and white wine and garlic and parsley.

Last year, they were open takeout only. They have a couple of tables outside the dock. So I think they'll probably have outdoor dining this year, but I'm not sure. Um, but that's my favorite place. I look forward to going there as soon as they opened right around Memorial day. Another favorite is, is Britain's bakery.

That's in Wildwood crest and they do the most amazing apple fritters and they're craggy and just like glazed, like the thinnest shell, lack of icing and big hunks apple in them. They are awesome. A lot of what they do is good, but the apple fritters are the thing. They're Britain's baker, B R I T T O N S.

Okay. So those are my two favorite things to eat at the shore, but I have a very long list, you know, overdosing city, maca Mancos pizza is my hands down. Favorite pizza, like from when I was a kid it's like pretty thin crusted. Super flavorful sauce. Great blend of cheeses. So 

Eli Kulp: [01:14:58] it was actually good pizza or is this like, cause it's yeah, it's from your child.

Adam Erace: [01:15:04] I wrestle with this like every year, but every year I'm like, no, this is really, really good. It is. It's so tasty. It's the kind of pizza that you can eat, like four or five slices of. So we always get like a plain and then we get a white pizza with broccoli or spinach also really delicious. And I call it back at Mancos it's not called that anymore.

It's now called Manco and Manco, Manco and Manco. So like the partners like broke up or whatever, like 10 years ago. Uh, and then in there's another great pizza place in summer's point called bakery a 10, 10, and that's run by, um, a guy named Mike Fitzpatrick and he goes by the Instagram handle pizza Jew.

So he was like worked all around the shore, making pizzas, Mack, and Mancos all up and down the coast and then started doing pop-ups um, several years ago and then finally opened his own place. Uh, last December and he does a really super long fermented, big, tall, fluffy focaccia, like pizzas, um, Detroit style with like the cheesy edges and his pizza is just extraordinary.

So those are some of the places that I, I always afford to going, obviously boardwalk fries, lots of vinegar. Yeah. Ice cream, like as often as possible. Yeah. 

Eli Kulp: [01:16:19] Yeah. Summer is getting close. It's been a long 20, 20, uh, people are looking forward to, and this kind of turned out the way people thought. I think everybody is looking at, at this time of 20, 21 as, as really the reopening.

This is going back to even last summer when, you know, when we were realizing that how, how long this was going to take. Yeah. And, you know, restaurants are, are reopening. There's, there's definitely with, with all of the stress of, you know, the lack of staff, you know, there's still. It relative sense of optimism in the industry.

And I think that's always there with our, with our industry. It could be a ignorant outlook, but I think people are going to enjoy this summer more than they have a long time. Yeah, I hope so. Yeah, for sure, Adam, this is fantastic. Always good to sit down with you and chat, you know, your industry has been affected.

Our industry has been affected. It's good to see the scenes coming back online. Yeah. Um, you know, it's been great to see you grow and representing yourself, but also the city of Philadelphia in such a positive way. And you know, you're, you really are a son of the city and, and, uh, you know, it's one of those things where from an outsider, I feel like I can always get a good glimpse of what's going on by sort of w where you're eating and what you're, what you're consuming.

God, thank you. I appreciate it. I think everybody. You know, in the industry, appreciates the work of like yourself and Craig and you know, these food writers that, um, they're not out to hurt, but they're out to keep it honest and, and keep the industry, uh, swimming in the right direction. And so, um, yeah, it was great to sit down with you and, and get to know you even better.

Yeah. 

Adam Erace: [01:18:06] Thank you. 

Eli Kulp: [01:18:08] Thanks for listening to the chef radio podcast. If you'd like to support the show, please leave us a review. Wherever you listen to your podcast, it helps others find the show and allows us to continue to make great content. The chef radio podcast is produced by radio kismet post-production and sound designed by studio D podcast production.

And I am your host, Eli called.