Jim And Kristina Burke Of WM. Mulherin’s Sons

THE PHILADELPHIA INQUIRER

Eli Kulp sits down with Philadelphia restauranteurs Jim and Kristina Burke, owners of Fishtown based Italian restaurant Wm. Mulherin’s Sons

Since adopting Mulherin’s in 2019, Jim has been executive chef, while Kristina handles FOH duties and pretty much “everything else.” The couple previously founded James in 2006, which served award winning modern American cuisine in the Bella Vista neighborhood until its closing in 2011. The last few years have dealt several blows to the Burkes; with Jim receiving a Stage-4 lung cancer diagnoses, and Kristina battling with Stage-2 breast cancer and radiation treatment. Eli discusses the experience of co-owning a business as a married couple, cancer diagnoses and treatments, their traveling happy hour fundraising organization, and much more. Information at www.wmmulherinssons.com and www.tagtimehappyhour.com

Jim And Kristina Burke Of Wm. Mulherin's Sons

Eli Kulp: [00:00:00] Hey chef radio listeners. Before we get to the show, I got to tell you about this brand new sponsor. We have, I'm really excited to announce that singer equipment company is now a partner with the chef radio podcast. Singer has been around a long time. They are born here in Philadelphia. They have been a big part of the growth in the city for a very long time.

It built a lot of restaurants. They built kitchens for me. They've supplied our restaurants for a very long time. Since I've been in Philadelphia since 2012 singer is really the only equipment company that we've used. So I can tell you from experience, you can trust these guys. They're going to give you fair pricing.

The equipment's always great, but their service is standout. They're responsive, and they're going to get you what you need. They're going to be there. So you don't have to worry about little stuff while you're trying to run your restaurant. Whether it's a new restaurant or one that's already existing, they have what you need.

Let's say you're thinking about starting your own place. Maybe it's your time. Look them up, talk to their consultants and they going to show you what they can do for, you know, they can build your dream kitchen, make sure you have the right, uh, tabletop, um, to their tabletop consulting, janitorial supplies, PPE, and they also have an excellent line of eco-friendly takeout ware.

So we all know that we're putting too much trash into the waste stream already. Make sure you're using the right stuff. Look up singers. They're going to have everything you need. So I need you to do now head over to their website. There's a special one. Just for chef radio. Go over to www.singerequipment.com forward slash podcast, chef as podcast chef and see what singer can do for you today.

Everyone Eli here. How are you today? Thanks for tuning in. We have a great one. It was really an honor to bring chef Jim Burke and his wife, Christina, into the podcast studio this past week. They are going through some circumstances that, uh, you see movies about. It's an incredible challenge that they're going through.

Both of them actually having cancer at the same time, more or less. I've had my own struggles with my injury, my spinal cord injury. And that's my, that is my challenge. Every day. Some people have other struggles as intense as what they have. Like, I know that I'm going to be okay. Uh, you know, when you get a cancer diagnosis, you just don't know, and the challenges and the, and the, and the ability for them to keep fighting and what they're doing with their happy hour and raising money for the specific.

Therapy that Jim uses. I urge you guys to go check that out and see it, see what you can do to help, uh, either, uh, fundraise or donate or, you know, whatever you can do to help. That'd be great. This month may is mental health awareness month. You know, I urge anybody out there. If you're having trouble in life, if you're feeling depressed, whatever it is, seek somebody out to talk to them.

There's a lot of people out there there's a lot of resources. You don't have to do it alone. I went through these challenges, uh, shortly after I was injured and there's still challenges that I faced today. So I recommend anybody, you know, that use the therapist or the doesn't have a therapist, um, that would like what a need one, seek it out or talk to friends, relatives, whatever it is, people are going to help you, uh, sort of the way it goes.

Um, With that being said, I want to, you know, get on with the show. But before I do that, I want to remind everybody the third newsletter for chef radio podcast is coming out, uh, this Thursday. So keep an eye for that in your inbox. And if you're not signed up, go ahead to the website and you can get signed up for our monthly newsletter.

So let's get to the show, everybody. Thanks for listening. And we'll see you on the flip

Is the chef radio podcast

each week, groundbreaking chef talks and chef talks, 

Kristina Burke: [00:04:35] uh, 

Jim Burke: [00:04:36] chef, 

Eli Kulp: [00:04:36] chef cooking, hospitality and 

Jim Burke: [00:04:39] wireman food. Is that really what it stands for? 

Eli Kulp: [00:04:42] I never really knew that liver to you, straight from the minds of the people who shaped the way we eat, 

Kristina Burke: [00:04:46] it had to believe in the possibility of food 

Eli Kulp: [00:04:49] over these talks, these ideas and more on the chef radio gas.

Okay, everybody. Welcome back to the chef radio podcast. I have two incredible people here in the studio. I have Jim and Christina Burke. How are the two of you? 

Jim Burke: [00:05:12] Very well. Thank you. 

Kristina Burke: [00:05:13] Thank you 

Eli Kulp: [00:05:14] for having us. Oh my God. I'm so excited for this. We're going to cover some really personal things and. This is about the industry.

This is about, you know, Jim's story and, you know, Christina's story in the industry, but it's also about something bigger than that. And it's really about life and challenges that many of us have to go through. And I tell people all the time, if you get through this life unscathed, you're very, very, very lucky.

I think all of us sitting here have an interesting story to tell, and we're going to get into that a little bit more, but first I want to talk about Jim, uh, you know, your, your background. I want to give everybody a little bit of a heads up, uh, what you've done in your career. You're currently the chef of WM.

Mulherin's here in Fishtown, which is a great spot. You know, you were also a summer. We share you were a food and wine best new chef, which is always a, uh, a real honor to be in this industry and being recognized by, you know, your peers and. And also, you know, the people out there that, you know, really respect the work that you did and that you've done.

And, you know, that's, that's a big deal. You've worked with Marc Vetri here in this city. Yep. Correct. And, um, and then you partner with Steven Starr and you went up to, uh, New York city to get there. And then, then you got, uh, was chef Danielle balut at run DVB, sir. Modern on West 44th street, Manhattan. Lots of memories there.

I'm sure. And, um, and now you're back in Philly, you know, the two of you, the challenges that the, of the two people that are, um, I'm sitting across from right now is intense. Jim, uh, you were diagnosed just last year with stage four, correct? Um, lung cancer. Um, you're not a smoker. This is a genetic version, right.

For what understand. Yeah. And Christina breast cancer, 

Kristina Burke: [00:07:05] 20 2019 stage two. 

Eli Kulp: [00:07:08] Yeah. Wow. Um, how are you guys doing? 

Jim Burke: [00:07:14] Pretty good. It sounds strange asterisk on that. Definitely. There's definitely an asterix then been there probably always will be, you know, just listening to your interview earlier. It's, it's, uh, a lot of, a lot of similarities in that, you know, everything changes in an instant, your whole life, everything, uh, that was, that was your life before is now either not they're different or just seen through a different filter.

Uh, so nothing is really the same. And your, 

Eli Kulp: [00:07:49] your focus goes from being a chef, being a father, being a supportive husband to now, you're like. Holy shit. My mortality is in 

Kristina Burke: [00:07:59] jeopardy. Yeah. You have to face that and nobody wants to face it. And I think when this first happened, something that people say to you all the time is, Oh, well, eventually we all go.

And I understand that. But being told is very different. Well, 

Eli Kulp: [00:08:18] and now you're being told, but it's not inevitable. Um, that you're, this is going to take you or, you know, be the end because thankfully there are treatments, you know, there's, you know, we're, we're advanced enough where your chances are better than ever.

It's like when I got injured, even though as horrific as it is, and this is a chronic thing, this is not something that, you know, you ever get better from knowing that we're in 20, 20, 20, 21, 2015, whatever it is, uh, you know, that we have better chances of. Beating things than ever before in technology to help help me along, like, especially with like communicate, like, I couldn't imagine if I didn't have no voice text 20 years ago or even a phone, you know, like it would be just a different, a different world.

Right? So thankfully we are in a place now where we feel that science has as has come a long ways. And I'm sure that gives you a little bit of hope. It's 

Jim Burke: [00:09:17] given 

Kristina Burke: [00:09:17] us tremendous amounts of hope. Um, 

Jim Burke: [00:09:20] yeah, I mean, there were, and that was the first, like the first set of good news that we got. I mean, cause at the very beginning was just, uh, uh, onslaught of, of 

Kristina Burke: [00:09:32] bad news.

Well, it happened in waves when we found out about Jim's diagnosis. Okay. Once 

Jim Burke: [00:09:37] we did find once we met with my oncology team and they told us what exactly that it was. And they had a, you know, they had a therapy specific to it. Right. And that was the first time, you know, I remember our rate, my radiologist said, you know, this is, this is a good thing.

This is a really good thing because it gives it's, it's a, it's a plan that was, that was waiting, you know, it's specific to exactly your situation. We know exactly what we're going to need to do first. You know, of course over time, these things are gonna change. Um, but they knew the first step, you know, and that was the biggest thing for me.

I remember telling Christina before we got started with these, uh, appointments, like I didn't, I didn't want to know a lot of details. I didn't want to see scans. I didn't want to hear percentages. I didn't want to hear any of that. You know, I, it was impossible to, to not know the seriousness of it at that point.

Um, so I felt like I knew that, but I told my oncologist, unless there's something very specific that I need to know. I want to hear what we're going to do about it rather than how bad it is. Like I know it's bad, it's, you know, we've, I've had some difficult phone calls over the last several days, so I don't need to hear more of that.

I need to hear what we're going to do about it. 

Kristina Burke: [00:11:02] And I just stepped in as, um, hate to use the word caregiver, but I did a deep dive in learning to read scans. Um, sometimes taking up to two to three hours, reviewing a scan, going back, measuring things from August every month, learning a lot of medical terms and I've learned 

Eli Kulp: [00:11:21] words you've never heard, 

Kristina Burke: [00:11:25] but it's interesting.

I have a better relationship now with his oncologist and his care team, because, because I press them, I read something and I say, why didn't you tell me about that? I just noticed that it was there. 

Jim Burke: [00:11:41] Okay. 

Kristina Burke: [00:11:41] Yeah. Yeah. I've actually helped out in one of the, uh, procedures. Yeah. And there was no one around, you know, this all also I think something to note is that this all happened during COVID.

So a time when your closest people want to take care of you, they can't, they can't come over. They can't take your kids. They can't hug you. We were really alone. Um, but I feel like we made it through something and I'm not to say that. We don't have to do that again and again, but I feel like what we made it through, at least for me, it taught me a lesson that I know I can do it.

Eli Kulp: [00:12:23] I think the important word there that you just said was we, you were, yes, you were isolated, but you had each other. And that's a great thing. I mean, listen, I I'm sure it wasn't rainbows and unicorns every day. 

Kristina Burke: [00:12:35] There's an ugly, crying in a washcloth in our small little city house that you don't, you know, you don't want anyone to hear that you're going through it.

Um, so yeah, there is some of that, but that's okay. I think what I'm learning is that you can, you know, things aren't exclusive, you can have feelings together. And I think that's what this has been. And I just have to focus on that for 

Eli Kulp: [00:13:01] us. Everybody knows this. I'm not saying anything sort of groundbreaking, but all of these experiences just like being a chef, like every good experience, every bad experience.

It's a learning experience. Yeah. And whether it's emotional, mental, physical, whatever these experiences are, they're going to go with you for the rest of your life. And you're going to have that. You're going to have that scar tissue in there and, and, and that sort of muscle memory for other, when other things pop up and it's like, this is about a two on the scale of one to 10.

And maybe what used to be, this would have been like a nine. Yeah. You know what I mean? But now it's a tube because yeah. Your perspective of, uh, you know, your skin, it shifts dramatically. You know, these are things that will even sort of strengthen you in other ways that you don't even know. Uh, I I'd say that speaking from experience, you know, where things that may have irked me before bother me, or, you know, don't get me wrong.

I'm still the same person in a lot of ways. And there's a particular way. I like to do things right. It's one of those things where, you know, perspective, changes and priorities shift and all that. So I want to touch more on all of this, where I can get into it, a deeper dive, but I don't want to lose sight of Jim you and your career and sort of what you've done and you know, your path, like many of us, it's a winding path that lots of twists and turns and ups and downs and know all of that.

The restaurant that the two of you created God, was it seven, six, 

Kristina Burke: [00:14:31] 2006. 

Eli Kulp: [00:14:32] So just like yesterday pretty much was it. I love restaurant. I'm talking about James, you know, your guys' first foray into ownership. Yeah. What, where did James the idea of James come from? What was the inspiration for it? You know, sort of, what was that like going back, uh, was that gosh, 15 years ago, like take, take yourself back to that place.

What was that, uh, time in your life? 

Kristina Burke: [00:14:59] Like when Jim and I met, we met in a kitchen working, we were both line cooks and, um, we just cooked, uh, Venus and the cowboy on the Parkway. 

Jim Burke: [00:15:10] I think both, I think, honestly, even before that, both of us independently before we met, kind of had that on our, on our personal path.

I always knew not always, but, you know, since I started taking it seriously and, and dedicated myself to cooking as a profession, I knew that eventually I wanted to get to that point where I wanted to own my own restaurant. Right. I didn't know what it would, you know, what that looked like, what that meant, but I knew that that's where I want it to go.

And I can imagine that you probably felt a similar way before we met, but then when we met, it was 

definitely, 

Kristina Burke: [00:15:45] well, I just am bossy and always want to run 

Jim Burke: [00:15:48] something that we, you know, immediately bonded over. Like that was, we were, we were obsessed with restaurants, with food, cooking, service, wine, you 

Kristina Burke: [00:15:59] know, we would just stay up all night talking about 

Jim Burke: [00:16:02] it first ourselves.

And it is as you did and do, and, and really so many other chefs and restaurant tours, because you do have to live, eat and breathe it to do it. Well, I mean, that's like a lot, like a lot of things. So those those years leading up to it, well, 

Kristina Burke: [00:16:22] we were in Italy for 

Jim Burke: [00:16:23] two years. And when, when we came back, I was working with Robert Bennett and I took a job out in the main line, which.

Which, uh, was, was fine, but I was looking to get back into the city and Stephen Starr called, um, about taking over Angelina. And, uh, and I was very interested in that and, and that didn't go exactly, as we thought it would. Uh, they, they ended up closing that restaurant, not, not too long after I took over.

And then that, that when, when Angelina closed, that was probably the impetus for us to really say, all right, if we're going to do this, we have to do it now. So we, I am mad at the opportunity 

Kristina Burke: [00:17:04] because I was 

Jim Burke: [00:17:07] catering or something. And so I had some flexibility and started putting together a business plan.

And, uh, and that's when we started looking for investors and, and, you know, networking. And I think I was 33 when it opened, I was 32, but it took, yeah, it took a couple years. Yeah. So that was a PR Angelina probably closed in 2004. Yeah. Okay. And I was catering and doing work in the business plan and then it got closer and I think, you know, and then if it really, you know, it was, it had a lot of momentum at that point and kind of went, just kept going 

Eli Kulp: [00:17:42] in that direct restaurant.

What was the idea behind it? 

Kristina Burke: [00:17:44] We always knew that we, especially after living in Italy, we always had such a, um, it had such a profound effect on us and not just the recipes, but the culture, the people, how it made us feel, how it changed us. Were you in Italy? When we first got, there was a little town called Ramsey, eco.

Far North up, 

Jim Burke: [00:18:03] it was close to Bergamo, which, you know, a lot of Philly salmon have a connection there. And then we did 

Kristina Burke: [00:18:10] go to Birmingham and then we were in Tuscany. 

Jim Burke: [00:18:13] And the second year we were in, I was going to ask 

Eli Kulp: [00:18:15] now what inspired that was, that worked for Mark? And like 

Jim Burke: [00:18:18] you're the site darn it, it started there.

So when I was at Vetri, I, I remember the first, uh, vacation was to go work for a couple of weeks in Italy. That's what chefs do for free on our face, 12 hours a day for free. So that was my first taste of, of Italy and working over there and kind of knew. And we, again, that was one of those things that we buy both.

We're always thinking that we wanted to get there. Like Italian cuisine was the first thing that I fell for. It really made me love food. I didn't grow up. I didn't grow up like. In a foodie household? No, we really, we didn't 

Kristina Burke: [00:18:56] have like Irish, too much salt. 

We 

Jim Burke: [00:18:59] didn't, we didn't have a vegetable garden in our own chickens.

Yeah. Anything like that. So, you know, I, I kind of fell for the food later. Uh, it was more of the work for me, you know, if we were getting back to like, when I really first started was I grew up playing a lot of sports. So it was, it was like an athletic event. It was very 

Kristina Burke: [00:19:22] intense. It was 

Jim Burke: [00:19:23] comradery semi chaotic.

Like you're trying to just control this monster. That's the, that at any moment could spill out of control. And that was exciting. And you know, that was fun for me. And I've always kind of needed that external pressure to do my best work. 

Kristina Burke: [00:19:42] That's why our marriage works well. I'm the external pressure all the time.

I think he feels like a fresh, I mean, he's, I can claim 

Jim Burke: [00:19:51] any opportunity I can coast. And, uh, and that's not good, obviously, so, 

Kristina Burke: [00:19:56] right, right. So good for me because I don't know how to chill. So if I didn't have him around, I would, you know, I'm kind of that monster that he, 

Eli Kulp: [00:20:05] there you go. The 

Kristina Burke: [00:20:06] motivation at our wedding, it was talked about a lot.

We had like a non traditional ceremony and I think the same theme kept coming up that like, I was this fireball and Jim was like the calming Buddha of like, like it just, but he, I needed him and he needed me. And here we are 23 years. And, um, you know, not to say that we're just like every other married couple in a lot of ways, but I think the differences, we still really like each other, you know, and there's just such a deep respect.

And I am fiercely protective. So when something happens to him at work, even if it's small, like I'm ready to scrap with somebody and he's the one that's always like, okay. So, you know, he's softened me up and he's really made me a better manager of people, better personnel around, but I think that's what we do for each other.

And we did that at James. The kitchen was Jim's even though I have a lot of kitchen experience, I mean, I hopped in many, a nights with lipstick and heels, hand roll toward Aloni. So the next order, or like when a moose fell, you know, then I was a pastry cook, but, um, it worked because the front of the house was me.

The kitchen was Jim and we came together in different ways. Um, our goal was always the same. Our vision was always the same. We just came about it differently, but we, I think we respected each other's spaces there so much. And I think that's what helps a restaurant thrive is like that trust factor, you know, when you're not worrying about somebody else's, you know, such or somebody has your back on it, it helps it go.

And I think it was a lot of years of like, we, we loved what we did, you know, it's shown through, like, we didn't have ticket numbers by that the last few years everybody had a name. And for me that was the most special thing. Even the cooks knew all the names, 

Eli Kulp: [00:22:03] um, has been doing something special for a small restaurant in Philadelphia, too.

Catch the eye of food and wine magazine. Um, you know, what was, what was that like, like getting that call from I'm assuming was Danica. Oh 

Kristina Burke: [00:22:18] yeah. Yeah. It's pretty remarkable clearly, but before the call, we were only, we were open what, like, it was our first Monday, it was our very first Monday open and it was like very close to six o'clock and we just had lineup and we're getting, we didn't even have our liquor license transferred yet.

So we were just pouring bottles of Prosecco for people. And, you know, that was already a struggle, trying to make sure that people knew we weren't always going to be a BYOB. That was my biggest fear. 

Eli Kulp: [00:22:47] You, you were sort of on the way of getting 

Kristina Burke: [00:22:50] your liquor there, but we hadn't. 

Jim Burke: [00:22:53] We got the restaurant opened faster than the liquor license was transferred.

Um, 

Kristina Burke: [00:22:59] and Dana Cowan walks in by herself through the front door of James on that first, Monday night open, like, so it was six days. We were open. I remember just trying to play it cool. Which as you've heard from this interview, I'm not. And so I was like, pardon me, glad I asked someone to get me a glass of champagne.

And I said, Oh, hi, Ms. Cowan. And she looked at me like, how do you know my name? And I remember walking through the kitchen and I said, um, this is not a test. Dana Cowen is in the front. She just walked through the front door, everything stopped for a second. And we were just like, all right, this is go time.

That 

Jim Burke: [00:23:41] was Chu. They were like finalizing the 2007 list. Okay. When, when she came in the first time and they, you know, they were obviously like, they liked it. And you know, we went from there, but I think that they were, there was like some discussion about whether. It would be for the 2007 lists or, or 2008.

And ultimately, I guess they decided that they had already kind of had their 10 per 2007 and then it'd be, we got moved, you know, kind of bumped to 2008, I guess. Great. 

Kristina Burke: [00:24:10] I I'm fine with it because we also got the risotto was chosen as, um, one of her best entrees the year before in 2013. What was that? 

Jim Burke: [00:24:20] It was the result though.

I let Christina, so it's something that I did for her birthday when I was at Angelina actually, uh, champagne and oysters are two of her very favorite things. And so, so I did a risotto with like, based around that. Yeah. And it 

Kristina Burke: [00:24:35] was really like, and then it worked, Oh my gosh. Yeah. And you refined it. And then when you decided to put it on the menu at James, I remember.

Just feeling like, wow. I, I mean, not that, it's my name that he took the time to, it's so much more romantic than an actual gift that you would open, like this gift you get to share with other people and you get to talk about it. And I knew that when I was talking to our guests, I, they could see, I mean, it was, it's so personal.

So I would tell them the story about it. And there was always something kind of funny and cute for lack of a better word, but people loved it. It was such a beautiful dish and you refined it and it it's, I mean, it's perfection. 

Eli Kulp: [00:25:19] How did you incorporate the champagne? 

Jim Burke: [00:25:21] Uh, so we use that in that, in the deglaze initially.

And then, but then we would also finish it with a little bit of raw champagne at the very end, you know, to, to really bring that flavor. 

Eli Kulp: [00:25:33] So for French or for me, so what does this look like? Where are the wasters? How does sit 

Jim Burke: [00:25:37] on the plate? So this is not, not, not a line cook friendly dish. Uh, we would Chuck Chuck six, six oysters to order every, every time we had a risotto, um, so five of the oysters, Oh my God.

They, so you had to shuck them and then strain them. 

Eli Kulp: [00:25:57] He knows like people have PTSD. 

Jim Burke: [00:26:02] Oh, sure. There's some, there's some cramping hands. When they, when they hear that from you, it's strain it, use the liquor that to help finish it. And then the five wood would get folded in at the very end, just enough to warm through.

And then the last one would be presented raw on top of the little curl of butter. And just in a, in my style of Rizzo, I always lean towards the Venetian style where it's a little looser, um, which works as well as I, at which which worked really well with, with these, with the sink. It was just a little lighter that it ate a little better and then just finished with chives and some good butter.

And. Let me just 

Eli Kulp: [00:26:40] good to go. Nice. So, I mean, you know this a little bit of notoriety, I mean cut Stephen Starr's eyes. Well, and you went to New York. What was the restaurant there in New York cafe? Storico Kevin historic. Okay. And what was that? 

Jim Burke: [00:26:53] That was a little different in the star realm because it was part of the catering company because it was, it started as a catering contract because it was in the New York historical society museum.

Okay. Um, and we were, they were pitching for the, the catering business there. And initially it was like, there was this little spot in the cause they were doing a massive redo of the whole museum. And there was a little section that they kind of wanted to do like a little cafe, but at the, at the beginning it was just kind of like coffee grab and go.

And he did, uh, ask while we, while James was still open, I went. To New York and did a lunch for the board of the, of the historical society to help kind of try to cement that deal. And, uh, and then started to sit in on some meetings about kitchen design. And that's when the, it started to the concept, started to grow to more of a full service restaurant, which is where I ended up.

And, you know, it was, that was, uh, that was a really difficult time. Not for anything other than what was going on with, with us. Uh, and me, like I said, closing James was, uh, devastating. Yeah. 

Eli Kulp: [00:28:08] I, I, I sort of skipped over that. What, what was that, what happened? 

Jim Burke: [00:28:13] So, I mean, the financial crisis. Obviously it didn't help.

Yeah. We were a fine dining restaurant. We were talking about 2008. Yeah. Yeah. And we actually thought, we were like, Hey, maybe this is gonna, maybe we can skate through this because we didn't, we didn't feel a lot of it. Initially there was several months passed before we started to really feel it. Right.

Kristina Burke: [00:28:37] But we did, we did do things right away too. We didn't want to compromise, obviously. I mean, no, Shafir, um, anyone that's running something that's so personal and also has resonated with people. Um, you know, the last thing you want to do is change something because. Financially, you have to, you don't want to cheapen anything.

And, um, we really struggled with what are we going to do because we were so adamant about, um, still being us and still being James. Um, so we actually did decide to close on Mondays and Mondays or never. You know, never volume, but we did tremendous business. It was a business night for a lot of like Jefferson, you know, you could still have the drug reps were still coming in and taking doctors out.

Um, so it was a great night for us and we realized we had it. That was like one of our first changes. Yeah. I mean, we, 

Jim Burke: [00:29:31] and we, we, our changes, we stayed on, uh, the labor side of things and of course made it, you know, we, we had to lose some people and, and put more work on ourselves, which also, you know, didn't help in the long run.

Right. So it, and, but after a while it was kind of, it, it started to kind of spin out of our control. You know, that was part of the, part of the beauty of opening. It was that we were naive and didn't, didn't think of all the terrible things that could honestly, I think the 

Eli Kulp: [00:30:06] taxes, the, the, the, the, the, um, the city fees, 

Kristina Burke: [00:30:11] the, you know, I mean, just negotiating.

And if you 

Jim Burke: [00:30:14] focus, if he focused too much on that, you would never, you'd never think so. There's some, there's a beauty to that, you know, ignorance a little bit. Right. But that caught up to us, uh, by the end of the lease. And we, you know, we just weren't, we were never. Capitalized. It's, it's a lot of the same story.

You know, we were under capitalized, we didn't negotiate our lease, uh, strongly enough. So we had went in with a, not a great lease and no help. And the location was, was tough for what, for the style of food that we were doing. And this was pre Uber. And, you know, so people are like, you know, even though they can walk, you can take a 12 minute walk from, from, from Washington square to get to our restaurant.

That was still way too far. Once the financial crisis really got hold of the, of the world, like we were, we were kind of toast at that point. Um, so we just, we wrote out the rest of our lease and, and didn't renew the lease and it's kind of, so it was five years. Yeah. 

Eli Kulp: [00:31:18] It's hard. I mean, especially something so personal.

Yeah, 

Kristina Burke: [00:31:22] baby. It did. I mean, I know, I don't want to, of course compare that to anyone that's, um, Yeah, where that has actually happened, but we built this thing together and it really did have, um, a life. It had a heartbeat and, um, all the people that we brought in, you know, the staff, we're still in touch with so many of our old staff.

And we see so many of the, um, customers, um, throughout the years. And it was a special place for a lot of reasons, not just for us when we hear the stories of how someone's dad passed away. And all they wanted to do was come into Jane's with their family, for the private dining room and just have that sense of like, ah, this is the place I want to be.

And that means something and that's what we wanted, you know? And that, that was it. So that was devastating for us. And, um, Jim is a very quiet, reserved guy. I mean, he's really funny, but you have to like, he doesn't show that to everybody. And when that, when we closed and moved to New York, That was very difficult for us.

He really went inward and he was working excruciating hours and we had a two year old Daniel was born at James and, um, I was on my own up there, like figuring out a new city. And I'm also, we joke that nobody does that. It's like the, the, maybe go backwards. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Like how let's 

Jim Burke: [00:32:51] move to New York with the young kids broke and in our forties, that's not how it usually goes 

Kristina Burke: [00:32:58] the other way.

Right. We never saw him. It was just myself and Dan. Um, and I was struggling to figure out my next steps and who, what I was going to do. 

Eli Kulp: [00:33:07] And it wasn't as if you were. You've lost. You don't 

Kristina Burke: [00:33:11] just stay restaurant, 

Eli Kulp: [00:33:12] stay at home mother. You were, you were active in the city. Yeah. I 

Kristina Burke: [00:33:15] mean, I was working tons of hours and in just like Jim in every part of it.

So to go from that, I mean, I did a little bit of consulting, but it didn't keep me afloat. It wasn't enough to drive me and also living in New York. It was like, if you do find a job, then how are you going to pay the nanny? So then you're like, okay, you're working for the nanny. Yeah, exactly. You're working for 

Eli Kulp: [00:33:41] a break from your 

Kristina Burke: [00:33:41] child.

So I w I, we decided not to do that after the first few times. And then, um, then we got pregnant with Sadie. Yeah. Well, we had already had, yeah. I mean, I feel like that's the thing about New York is like we had, you know, we had faced a lot of losses. I had a very late miscarriage at James. It was about three and a half months.

So it was like, we are. Waited to tell people the right amount of time and it still didn't matter. And I remembered this, that being very public, I was already showing and, um, everybody knew I was pregnant and that was a real tough loss. Um, and then, you know, then it was like, we lost the restaurant and then that was a really big loss.

And then we had another miscarriage before Sadie and then Jim's dad was sick and it was just like we, and ultimately he passed and, and, and that was all New York. 

Jim Burke: [00:34:37] It was all happening. I didn't get it. Like when we closed, I was already, I had been working for like maybe five or six weeks. Why when we closed James, I had been working with star already.

So, you know, there was no like break. There was no real time to reflect. And, and that's when, you know, and I w I was bitter, I was angry that we had to close, but other people didn't, you know, I felt like we were as good as anybody, and we knew how to run our business and we should, you know, we should have the same, same shot that, that everybody else has.

And we, you know, we did, we had the same shot. It wasn't that it was unfair. I mean, it was a little bit, but, but you know, it, I got over like the jealousy of it. Um, but at that time it was, it was overwhelming. And then jumping into New York, even just trying to get an apartment in New York, 

Kristina Burke: [00:35:37] a 

Jim Burke: [00:35:39] stupid, stupid it's crazy.

And then just working, learning 

Eli Kulp: [00:35:43] that apartment 

Jim Burke: [00:35:44] game.

Eli Kulp: [00:35:52] Everybody went, take a quick break. I got Emilio here, uh, from the Bruno brothers, Amelia, how you doing? Ah, fantastic. Great. It's great to see you. Um, you guys have some great stuff going on in, you know, these virtual cheese events I'm hearing about, are they they're going gangbusters? Wha what's going on?

Because I know sort of some of the, since the pandemic hit, right, you've had to pivot a little bit. Yeah, listen, 

Emilio Mignucci: [00:36:18] we've, you know, pre pandemic. We had a lot of events scheduled, you know, pandemic happens, those events all cancel, but you know, the, these, you know, we were doing a lot of corporate business and events and they transitioned to these virtual events and the virtual events had been gone so well that they become a really, um, great part of our business.

And, you know, People just get in touch with our corporate account team or, or our catering team, or, you know, the easiest way is just go to corporate@thebrunodotcomorjustdibruno.com and just ask, uh, you know, for some of these events, but we booked them. Three four or five nights a week. They're basically like, uh, happy hours.

And, you know, we send out, I mean, it's, it's really easy. We, you know, you reserve the date, we send out whatever, you know, tasting kit or box that you're interested in. And then, uh, we send you a link to log on for, um, for like a zoom meeting through it. And, you know, we help you 

Eli Kulp: [00:37:19] celebrate, so you have a cheesemonger that will be there and it could be for any special occasion, it could be something for the office, just get the morale up.

Yeah. We've 

Emilio Mignucci: [00:37:29] done them for families. We've done for different offices. We've done. Gallas the Phillies just hired us a few weeks ago to do one for them. We, you know, we did a launch for Jose Garcia, a launch for his website and stuff that was coming. You go, that was fun, you know, like, so, you know, listen, all of our friends and buddies like, you know, and, and, and a lot of them, like if.

If not me then Alex or haunted, like you get, you know, some of our really cool, listen, it's fun for us as marketers to get on there and to teach people and like, you know, we're not having as much to that store currently. So, uh, yeah, they, they work out really, really great. We've done them for like families, just like people during the holidays.

I want to get together with their families and they couldn't travel. So yeah, it was just 

Eli Kulp: [00:38:13] high-risk. So we got some big events coming up. I mean, you got mother's day coming up. Yeah, for sure. Father's day you have, um, 

Emilio Mignucci: [00:38:20] Yeah. So we incorporated like, like a special monthly one. So we were doing like this month.

Well, you know, Valentine's day was choosing chocolate. There you go. We're doing a, um, we're doing a, um, a father's day with, um, like how to pair, um, uh, whiskies with cheese Roco and, you know, uh, a mother's day, brunch, cheeseboard, and delegates cheeses. We're doing like every month we have a seasonal or a special one plan for like the public.

And so we'll take out a script, 50, 60 people up to a hundred, you know, randomly 

Eli Kulp: [00:38:56] so cool. So people can just go to your website and bruno.com, the brendan.com and get signed up.

You know, you work for Danielle Balud after that. Um, obviously one of the most famous chefs in America, what was that period like for your own growth? Um, what did you learn? What were your takeaways? Are there things from New York that you still use, even though it was such a trying time? 

Jim Burke: [00:39:28] I mean, I think there were some things that just became part of me.

I didn't have a great experience with Dynex. Um, and I, uh, you know, I'm, I'm at a point now where I can fully admit that a lot of it was, was me, you know, I didn't, I didn't, I wasn't doing my best work at that time. Um, and that's, I, I can certainly admit that, you know, my father was sick and getting sicker, uh, and we weren't, I wasn't there.

Um, we just had safety, safety was a newborn, you know, I was, I didn't see my wife. Uh, we, we, we didn't have a real close connection at the time and Dynex was not. There was not the right place for me at the time. And that restaurant in particular, uh, DBB stro was not, not the place for me. It's, I mean, that's not necessarily my style of cooking.

I came up in the, in the industry and, you know, all fine dining and small places and hands-on, and like paced meals and Debb strove was just a beast. I mean, it is just a cauldron and it's nonstop, it's breakfast, lunch and dinner. It's room service and tutoring service, the power lunch, and then the pre theater and the post theater.

I mean, just, just between lunch, pre theater and post theater. I mean, that's like all close to 600 people a day right there and then breakfast and then the rest of dinner, you know, it's, it's just, non-stop you have an overnight prep crew. It's, you know, it's a, it's a pressure cooker, you know, like New York is, but that restaurant in particular was.

It really, uh, has a way of chewing you up. 

Eli Kulp: [00:41:15] Yeah. Yeah. I know a lot of chefs who've worked, uh, there as well as cafe bill, dude, you know, a lot of those in there, they are. Um, you definitely learn how to, uh, work efficiently or you don't work at all. The thing about New York city is that it puts you through some of the most intense moments of your life in your career and in your personal life too.

But there's, there's always things that you kind of pull out of out of anywhere you work, doesn't matter if it's New York city or anywhere else. And that sort of kind of lead you where you are today. 

Jim Burke: [00:41:45] Yeah, no, definitely. Um, and, and there are things probably that I didn't, I still don't even realize that, you know, just dealing with so many.

Fires that you need to put out at once, right? It does force you to prioritize things and, and, uh, and, and really focus on finding the best path forward for each of those moments. You know, you're, you're weighing a lot of different, you know, you have the quality of service that's coming up, you have the mental state of this cook.

Who's like starting to lose it. And, you know, you're the, the other cooks who are like working hard to, to, to cover the, what he's missing. I mean, it was, and it would just, wouldn't never stop. I mean, there was never a break to catch your breath. Um, so I think probably without me really knowing it, it did help me process things quicker.

Uh, you know, that was something that was like hammered into me by a couple of the people who were, I was working with. Like, you need to like. Make make decisions quicker. Like things need to happen faster. 

Kristina Burke: [00:42:52] And that's actually not Jim's way percolates. He lets the, which is like the beauty of Jim. I always look, um, I've always looked up to him for that and wish that I had that moment.

Sometimes my biggest, I was not so much character flaw, but I feel the need to answer right away or get back to somebody immediately. And you don't. And I think sometimes you get a clearer, uh, you know, better, more honest answer. And I think Jim always does that. And so when he's in the pressure cooker, um, to have to do that nonstop, it, it really like, it wasn't him.

He didn't feel like it was him. And so not feeling himself at work and then working 90. I'm not, we are not exaggerating. There were several weeks, there was nine 90 hour work weeks and I felt like, uh, I felt like a single mom with two kids, and I'm a brand new infant and, you know, walk up where you can't, you know, I mean a stroller stroller, you're not allowed to leave anything downstairs, carrying up the groceries.

Um, 

Jim Burke: [00:43:57] and that was another part Dynex which, uh, you know, I'm, I'm fully willing to admit what, what I brought, like the baggage that I brought to that job, but I didn't get a lot of support from them. Right. You know, there was, uh, you know, after like almost immediately after I started, there was very little concern for my quality of life or my wellbeing or anything outside of work.

There was no, and I didn't, I don't feel like I got a lot of support either. You know, there was, there was a corporate chef who, uh, you know, had a very clear idea about what DVB stroke should be. And it was what he had kind of made it into several years. Yeah. Yeah. I don't live here. I'll go Livia and yeah.

And he just wouldn't, you know, after a certain amount of time, he just, he would, he would contradict me. He would go against the things that I wanted to do without telling me and take things off the menu without telling me, and, and then started having these side conversations with cooks and sous chefs and general managers.

And he really like forced me out onto an Island where I was, you know, just dealing with all of these things by myself essentially. And they were just letting me sink. Yeah, it is. It is. And I don't know that they would ever really admit to that, but that was definitely the case. 

Eli Kulp: [00:45:16] Well, a lot of those companies and Danielle is notorious for his killer be killed mentality.

Definitely. And you know, whether it's sabotaging the cook next to you until you can get that spot. I mean, there's. There's stories of, you know, the weak link and pulling the walk-in and getting beat up and, you know, fight night in the walk-ins and, you know, it's I've I worked for some of the chefs, so, and they presented that same sort of a mentality in the kitchen.

I think you mentioned Italian for the Italian food saved me because I'd worked for like these French American French chefs that is just really that killer big killed mentality. And then Italian food. I say this all the time, but you just can't cook it. Yeah. Yeah. It 

Jim Burke: [00:45:56] doesn't work that way. No, you're 

Kristina Burke: [00:45:57] totally right.

You have to have that love that comes through. Right, right, 

Eli Kulp: [00:46:01] right. So, I mean, you've, you've obviously experienced a lot of challenges with that comes that, you know, you learn from every one of those now about two years ago. Uh, when was it that you started talking with Mark 

Jim Burke: [00:46:15] summer? Uh, 2019. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Eli Kulp: [00:46:21] For those of you don't know more herons, um, it is. Really a special place, um, situated in Fishtown, right under the L a really cool building, uh, sort of like a historical feel to it. Yeah. The original partner slash chef that went in there turned out to be a complete piece of work. And I used the word work.

Yeah. He's a shit really misogynistic and, you know, just early harassing environment that it became, you went into it and sort of completely rehabbed this place and the culture and the mentality. And there was a lot of damage done because of the chef. 

Kristina Burke: [00:47:02] And I just, I was worried. I remember when we got the call at first, we weren't, you know, we weren't sure if it was the right move.

Jim Burke: [00:47:10] I thought about thought hard. That 

Kristina Burke: [00:47:12] was probably the longest time we decided on something 

Jim Burke: [00:47:17] it's going back into. Restaurant world. I mean, I was at, I had been at Drexel for two years. Right. And before that consulting, you know, since I left DBB stro, I was not in a restaurant working, not working those hours, not cooking as much.

And so this was a big jump back in for us. Sure. It wasn't the 

Eli Kulp: [00:47:39] Philadelphia chef 

Jim Burke: [00:47:40] community. Yeah. But Mulherin's was I credit the owners a lot for making the decision to, to change everything and to, uh, to give me the chance to do it the way I felt like it needed to be done. Um, because the restaurant was in rough shape when I started, I mean, the morale was obviously very low.

Um, and not just, this was, this was probably a year after all that went down, that it was just like a series of chefs that just, I guess weren't able to do it, what needed to be done. And the restaurant was kind of rudderless, uh, when I started and, and we made, you know, the first thing I think that made a difference was I got everybody together and told them, honestly, like what I saw in my first couple of weeks, what I, what I think we should do and where that's going to take us.

And people really responded well, you know, we did the vision. Yeah. And it just totally honest with people. Like, I know we can be a great restaurant. We're not right now, but we can be, and this is the way we're going to get there. Uh, but we all have to be a part of it. And it's all based on mutual respect and.

That's the only way that anything really great can get done about it. 

Eli Kulp: [00:49:01] Oh yeah, no doubt. I mean, you have to, you have to have a vision yet of mutual respect to trust. And when you have that in you, you know, your team can, can start to trust you and sort of the information they're getting and how they're getting it and how they're, you know, um, talking with, uh, guests and being proud of what they're doing rather than, um, you know, so that fear-based culture that I think it existed there for a while.

Tell us about that journey a little bit as far as, because it's easy to say one thing, but then you have to do it, right? Yeah. 

Jim Burke: [00:49:31] So what was, what was the, 

Kristina Burke: [00:49:33] and you have to have the people underneath of you, like your, that also believe in it also bringing it that it can't just, I mean, it can come from the top, but you really have to instill something in people and they, it takes time because they also have to learn who you are and then, and then see it.

Jim Burke: [00:49:51] And as you know, you know, like good. Your good habits are built over time by through repetition, you know, you have to be taught to do the right thing, and then you have to do the right thing a thousand times. Yes. Until you know, like you don't need to think about it anymore. This is just the way that I do it and it's the right way.

And unfortunately, there were a lot of things that there were a lot of bad habits that were built there. And so, you know, changing that old dog new tricks was, was extraordinarily frustrating at times for, for certain members of the staff that just wouldn't, they couldn't see how, what they were doing was wrong.

It was actually worse for them. They were making it harder on themselves. And you have to spend a lot of time and effort to convince people that there's a better way to do this. It's this way. And you need to do it this way every time until you just 

Eli Kulp: [00:50:49] sort of, usually they realize that or. Maybe they don't 

Jim Burke: [00:50:53] and they may leave and somebody else comes in who understands it from the start.

And we, and we have had, we we've had, uh, not a tremendous amount of turnover since then. Honestly, the COVID is much more turnover from COVID obviously, because we had to lose everybody, started bringing back people at different times, so that was difficult. But, um, right now we have a lot of new people, um, which is why I'm I'm, I'm there little, little more.

And, um, but we have a good, really good group of people who are committed and who are willing to do what it takes to, to get us to that vision that I set out, you know, a year and eight months ago. 

Eli Kulp: [00:51:33] So a customer that might be listening and like, Oh, they want to check out this restaurant. What are they going to expect when they go in?

Where's what's the food, what's the atmosphere. Um, where, where do they go? 

Jim Burke: [00:51:43] Um, so we're a neighborhood Italian restaurant. It's uh, the food is rustic. Uh, to, to a certain degree, um, in that, you know, we, we focus on a wood-fired grill, there's pizza and pasta that are all handmade in house. Um, pizza and pasta is really the focus of the menu.

Right. Um, and then, uh, and then we have a great wood-fired grill. So you're going to get a lot of like, you know, rich meats and smoky flavors and the nice char from the grill and rice. Um, and, but with all that, I wanted to change a little bit what we do with this small plate section of the menu, make it a little bit more vegetable focused, a little lighter, uh, to balance out the rest of the menu.

Cause it, it had, it was, it was pretty heavy and rich. Um, and, and while you do, you don't want to lose that, uh, you know, that kind of. Identity completely because you have the grill and you do want that nice big ribeye coming off the grill. Um, you also want to make it a little bit more modern, a little bit more tailored to modern palettes and keep some, some balance on the menu for, you know, for, for the way people eat now.

Right. Um, so we, we did make some, some changes in, in that regard. Um, but it's, you know, big, big flavors, um, you know, real simple food, you know, we, we, I have, I've definitely kind of gone back in, in my head to, to why I fell for Italian cuisine in the first place. You know, I read, I read Marcela Xons essentials of classic Italian cuisine, and I couldn't believe what really struck me was how much sense it made.

Like there's such a specific reason for everything that they do. And that's why it can be so simple. You start with this perfect product. Of course they're spoiled in that, regardless if they have this perfect vegetables. Yes. Yeah. All the time. Uh, so, but you start with that and you treat it really thoughtfully and carefully and you present it very simply and that's it, that's it.

Eli Kulp: [00:53:52] And if you, and as, as we get older, too, right? Like, Oh yeah, that makes so much more sense. When you're young, you want it, you want to put your stamp on things. You won't put your stamp on things. You want to make sure that, you know, this design of the plate, this, these garnishes, these, these extra steps are the wow factor in that last 2% to get it to a, as close to a hundred, as you can.

And you work for work for them in your, you know, your tweezers out and you're doing everything else. And then as we get older, we're like, eh, screw all that stuff, man 

Jim Burke: [00:54:23] day. Right. So, 

Eli Kulp: [00:54:26] um, yeah, I think going into anything, changing something that's already. Existed. Uh, it's hard, 10 times harder, 10 times harder.

Um, yeah, you know, you want to just stop fire, everybody, rehire everybody, and to start over, but you know, it's, it's like building an airplane as you're falling off the cliff. You know what I mean? It's, it's literally, you know, you're trying to get this, this thing going while it's still moving. 

Jim Burke: [00:54:51] You're busy.

Oh, you're not just open you're you're busy. Yeah. You do have to get ready for hundreds of people coming into the restaurant. And I think that the dynamics in a way helped me with that part of it. All right. I need to fuck this fire is the biggest, so we need to put that one out first. There's other fires that can smolder for a little bit before I need to get to that now.

So that's not a fun way to look at it, but it's certainly necessary. 

Kristina Burke: [00:55:18] Okay.

Eli Kulp: [00:55:26] Everyone part of the interruption. Uh, we're gonna talk about one of our great sponsors. One of the things I'm most excited about one of the really coolest invention I've seen come on the market for restaurants is the dry ager. We all know there are fewer pleasures greater than sitting down in a gorgeous dining room and cutting into beautiful dry aged steak.

Now, imagine if you can do that in your own restaurant, now you don't have to pay the butcher to do it with the driver's ability to optimize humidity inside the cabinet, as well as the sterilization of germs and bacteria through the UV filtration system. You're able to age at a higher humidity level than traditional drayage, which allows your product to retain more moisture on the inside, which leads to less yield loss in the final product.

Because of this, you're not only getting a higher quality aged meat, but one that is far less expensive than what you're paying and buying from your local supplier. They have large ones for commercial use and they also have awesome ones for these little ones for at home. I mean, how cool is that to have a dry age or at home?

Uh, there are already some around Philadelphia. You can check out. You can see them at primal supply up in brewery town, as well as the Bruno brothers in written house. Listen to what their Thomason who's. The owner of primal meats says about the dry age or I'm quoting her. I am very happy with the initial results of aging, our beef and the Drager cabinets.

The control and consistency is remarkable. And beyond the increased tenderness I expect to achieve in this process, I found the drayage fat to be clean and yet complex in flavor. So she's saying this is some of the best she's ever tasted. So basically what this is doing is allowing those natural bacteria as the good ones to kind of, you know, develop the flavor inside the beef.

So that's what you really want out of a dry ager. So head on over to Drager or usa.com or call Matt McKinney directly at (215) 514-8310.

Christina, your diagnosis as a mother, uh, breast cancer out of the blue, you know, that must've hit hard for both of you. Take me back to that first initial diagnosis. So 

Kristina Burke: [00:57:42] I was just, um, September just going for a routine mammogram and I have no history of it in my family. And, um, they said there was a suspicious finding as nervous or like, um, uh, as a person as I am, or like maybe like, uh, I am not an alarmist.

And so I thought it's probably nothing. This happens a lot, but at the time I was actually doing this incredibly large event, um, it was about 500, 600 people and I was working on one other person with it, this woman, um, Jenna Ben. Sure, sure. Who was doing twist out cancer. And she does something also in the same vein called Russia's with cancer.

She came in and was like, I think I can do it here. And we work together. And it was interesting that after all the months of working on this project, while I was, um, listening to these survivors, um, speak to their own experiences and I'm talking to the staff and I'm waiting for my test results to come back.

You know, at that point, I think I knew something because I had gone back so many times. It wasn't just like, Oh, we found it. It was like, you're going to have to come back. And now you're going to have to come back for a biopsy. And then same as Jim. Actually, we were in the exact same spot. It was almost the exact same time of day.

Um, I was, Jim was at work and I was making dinner for the kids and I got a phone call and I stepped outside to our patio out back. And, um, you know, you, you hear those words, um, I'm sorry to tell you this, but you have cancer. And for anyone who's heard that that moment is the worst moment. It's not the surgeries or the treatment because that's the unknown.

And so I didn't know how serious it was. Um, I had, you know, at that point you're told a diagnosis and that's it. You have to wait after that to make all of your, you know, appointments and find a care team and figure out your treatment plan. And once you're on that path, I think things develop more quickly and you're able to just focus on getting better.

And I did, it was just a. But, uh, at some point, so I had, um, at first I wasn't staged. I think this is what makes my diagnosis like a touch different, I wasn't staged. We thought it was just going to get a lumpectomy and then I was done. So we're like, great. This is the best possible outcome. And yeah, 

Jim Burke: [01:00:08] we did.

I mean, we did find it early. It was very, the initial mass was very small, so they felt like they had a good grasp of, you know, what this is and what our, what our plan of treatment is. And like, we can, you know, as, as terrible, once you, you know, it's terrible just to enter into that world of you have cancer, but once you're in there, there's a lot of different levels of like seriousness and, and we, we got, we got lucky.

A little bit lucky with, with Christina and, and that it was found early and that initially it was small. Now of 

Kristina Burke: [01:00:41] course there was more for surgery. Um, pathology reports came back that there was actually more cancer and that it had spread to my lymph nodes. So in less than two weeks, I was back in the, or with a second surgery.

That was a little bit harder of a surgery. Um, just in terms of mobility because they go through your armpit and, um, you don't know this unless you study the body, but that's, there's so many things happening there and it connects to so many parts of your body. And, um, so I lost a lot of mobility in my arm and I had to do close to six weeks of radiation.

Um, my radiation was very difficult, basically. It was like a video game I had to wear goggles. And through the goggles gave me directions. Um, and I had to be able to move my heart out of the way of the radiation beam. By doing these things called deep breath holds, and you have pincers on your nose, keeping your nose, your nostrils closed, and you have a tube in your mouth which connects to the machine.

So you're wearing all this apparatus. You're shirtless, you know, like you're the, in the most vulnerable of positions on a bed. And then everybody leaves the room and you basically have to control the machine with your breathing. And you only get three times to control it because if you can't get it done within those three times, you know, they're so busy, they have to get somebody else in the room.

So there's a learning curve on doing that. And I'm also a person that like, I have to do it. Right. I mean, I just. For me, but more so, you know, I don't want to hold anyone up or make the attacks upset or hold up another patient. And I felt that there was just, it was so much pressure. And you have like wires coming out of you and tape.

You have to get tattoos, your markered, um, And I, I didn't do it the first two times. And I got really upset with myself and they're like, do you want to take a break? I said, no, no, I'm going to get it. And then I did, then I did it every day and I walked there. I'm lucky, um, that we both live. I mean, what we say lucky now is funny, you know?

Um, but we walked, I walked there every day and it became my thing and I decided that's when I was probably gonna leave yards and just, I just needed a break to know that radiation is really exhausting and the more you get it, the more exhausting it is. And I just wanted knowing his hours, I wanted to be there for our kids and wanted to be able to pick them up from school and make them dinner and let them know mom was okay.

They were really worried for me. We're really tight knit crew teamwork. It's tight. We talk about everything. They see everything. And, um, yeah, and then just kind of started, you know, slowly after. I, uh, slowly after I finished radiation, I went right into PT and I was doing that quite a bit because the radiation really hurt my shoulder.

Um, and, and, uh, like I said, the second surgery, I lost a lot of mobility, but you have to wait until all the swelling goes down. So it's a process it's long, but it's not, it's nothing I couldn't handle. And I I'm almost through it. It's just now daily meds. And, um, what I tell the kids, which is just a, what do I tell them?

The medication is now it's just protective for preventative. Yeah. Um, 

Jim Burke: [01:03:58] which it is, you know, she's had a couple clean scans in a row and, you know, stay on, stay on the path that she's on to hell to, to make sure that it doesn't come 

Kristina Burke: [01:04:07] back. And she's just now it's just to let my friends know and, um, guys or gals, you know, guys, to let their wives or girlfriends know and, um, their partners, you know, don't.

Ever say you're too busy to get getting a mammogram or taking care of your health off because if they did not find this early, even though mine had already spread, I mean, what if I just put it off another year and said, you know, I'm really busy at work and I have the kids and I'll go, right. You know, I could be in a very different situation right now.

And so just get your mammograms because ultimately, if you don't take care of yourself, you're not going to be able to take care of the people that you love. And that's obviously a really big lesson for me right now, you know, 

Eli Kulp: [01:04:52] um, you know, shifting over to, you know, Jim, um, I'm a dad, right? I am a father. Um, I have one boy, you have a boy and a girl.

I, you know, hearing your story, thinking about it, more hearing the number, you know, stage four, which a lot of times people associate, Oh, like that's sort of the end of the road. Um, For a lot for, you know, a lot of cancer and no, I, I don't think anybody has not, has never been touched by somebody who's dealt with cancer.

I've had a couple of family members who have passed away from it. And I think every everybody has, or a friend or family friend or whatever as a father. I can't imagine. I can't imagine what must go through your head, but I can't imagine. I mean, I can, I can relate because I went through yeah. Similar, um, experience, um, is different because it's more physical.

Um, you know, obviously, uh, you know, getting back on my, uh, quote feet, you know, it was, it was a process. Absolutely. But I also knew that this was not a death sentence. Yeah. I think that's where it's a little different, I think. Yeah, I can, I can relate as being a father being disappointed. Like, you know, you go through the things like, I'm not gonna be able to do this to my kid.

What happens? You know, where is my kid gonna be? Okay. Can I be a good dad, still, you know, all these things and, you know, grieving. 

Kristina Burke: [01:06:24] Yeah. There's why you're still alive. And I 

Jim Burke: [01:06:26] think that that definitely happens. Oh, absolutely. I mean, all of them and they still, it still does, you know, for me, it's, it's always there, you know, that, that part of it is all.

Is there, 

Eli Kulp: [01:06:38] is there something that you used to be able to do or, um, that just you can't do now that you, um, like, has it affected you physically, mentally? 

Jim Burke: [01:06:53] That's it? Yeah. Yeah. That's a really good question because it's a remarkable how. Like, I think, you know, our situations are S are similar in a lot of really major ways.

And then there's, they're very opposite in other ways. Right. Um, and then the situation with Christina and myself are, are similar obviously, but also extremely different. Like what it, my, our kids almost, and this is kind of a blessing. Like they forget about it, right. Sometimes because physically they don't see anything different with me.

You know, it was actually much more physical with Christina because she had two surgeries. She went radiation every day. She had, and then the, in the, in the beginning of the, uh, medication really like knocked her out. You know, we, she would get an infusion and a couple of days later it would, it would really like hit her heart.

Right. Well, one of the extreme fatigue and joint pain and yeah. Now she had to switch medications at one point. So it was, it was a lot more physical. Whereas in my case, you know, it's such a massive diagnosis and all of the seriousness that comes with that. Right. But you, you couldn't tell, you know, I had, I had lost a lot of weight, uh, before that, but 

Eli Kulp: [01:08:17] did you lose weight?

Not knowing what was going on? Like you knew something was up, but you didn't really, 

Jim Burke: [01:08:23] and I didn't even know, like I knew only, like I would say like the last two, three, say three weeks, four weeks before I was diagnosed, I knew something was, was wrong. That was bigger than, than what maybe I initially thought.

Okay. Um, because that's when I started to really feel the shortness of breath. That, that I hadn't felt before it actually started with hip pain. Oh, well, and yeah, my left hip was hurting and I was just like, you know, I've been working on my feet for 30 years. It's just one of those things that, that happens and, you know, whatever, uh, I'll deal with it.

But then it got worse and I called the doctor and they thought it was this. And, and then, and which strangely enough started to work out. Okay. I don't know why. Um, but then like I started, uh, I started to feel like a little bit of a wheeze, uh, and you could hear like a little whistling when I was breathing.

And, um, so that was, that was new. And then I brought that up and they were like, well, it could be adult onset, asthma, like to get that does happen. Sure. And they prescribed me an inhaler and that didn't do anything. And then that week, like got a little worse. And then, uh, and then Christina noticed that I had lost a good bit of weight and significant and was feeling kind of like weak and not 

Kristina Burke: [01:09:42] strong.

See it wasn't super present. I mean, we weren't up to the mountains that weekend and he was just different. 

Jim Burke: [01:09:50] And that's when I noticed, like, I was just climbed the steps from the, uh, the Lake up to the house. Totally wind, like lost, like couldn't catch my breath. And I was like, this is something. And then it happened quickly from that point.

Cause they, they had ordered a pulmonary test, which I never even got to because when I had that next tele visit, I had, uh, I, my primary care physician said, you know, Debbie lost weight. And I said, yes. And they were like, okay. And I had also started to develop a pain. Like when I coughed, I would feel a pain Sperry specific spot.

And it turns out that's where the mass was. 

Eli Kulp: [01:10:28] Did it ever occur to you that. This might be lung cancer? 

Jim Burke: [01:10:33] Um, no, no, but I did feel like it was something serious. Um, they ordered the next thing that happened was a chest x-ray and, uh, and so I got a chest x-ray in the morning and 

Kristina Burke: [01:10:50] that's fine. Also. It was really tough to get you seen.

We have to remember this is during the height of COVID. So if you were not, if you were not having any COVID symptoms, fever, loss of taste, smell, things like that, you know, you weren't being seen, especially if you normally presented as a healthy person, they were like, Oh yeah. 

Jim Burke: [01:11:14] I mean, I was never sick. I would never get sick.

You know, even the cold I would, you know, it just, I never got sick. I mean, And so I just assume, you know, for, until the breathing started, I was like, yeah, 

Kristina Burke: [01:11:26] even the loss of weight, he said like, um, I'm just not eating at work and I, 

Jim Burke: [01:11:31] which has happened in the past, but not to this degree, this was different. So, so then, then I ordered the chest x-ray and they called like a half hour later and they said, we'd be saw something and we want to get an urgent, uh, cat scan that afternoon.

And, and at one point they had, I was on the phone with a doctor. I'd never, actually never told you, Oh great. 

Kristina Burke: [01:11:55] This is a perfect 

Jim Burke: [01:11:55] time. Um, when they told me before they knew what it was, they said, all right. So we saw something and it could be any of these things. It could be pulmonary tuberculosis of a fungal infection.

No, I told you those two, okay. Fungal infection. And then she said, or metastatic cancer. And that's what I. Held back because I just, I didn't know how to process that at that point. And I wasn't gonna, I didn't want to burden her with that yet. Yeah. Obviously there was no holding because it didn't take, I don't know.

It was the next, you know, the next afternoon I was, I was diagnosed. So it was quick. Yeah. Yeah, it was. 

Kristina Burke: [01:12:42] But then what happened? It was like an onslaught in waves of bad. 

Jim Burke: [01:12:48] Yeah, because at first they said, you know, we S we say, there's a mass on your right lung, you know, it's this size and all that. And then they sat down and we, and we have seen something on your spine and.

And that was, uh, and that was before, and that was yeah. Before some of the more detailed imaging. And, uh, and then, you know, I talked to the, the pulmonologist and he let me know that was after the Broncos, the other, the other places that it had spread, um, you know, which was more bad news. Um, and then, you know, keeping in mind every, every time it was on your spine.

Yeah. Um, so, you know, in total it's, it's spread pretty significantly, uh, both of my hips and some, some rib bones. Um, and yeah, keep in mind every time that we got new information like this, this was another phone call that I needed to, I needed to tell my mother that this was happening in my sisters and my brother.

And so this, yeah, it was pretty intense. Intense moments there. I bet. Um, 

Kristina Burke: [01:14:05] and trying to process it or digest it and then process it in a way to tell people to you're constantly put in the situation where you want to tell them, because you have to share it with them, but you're aware that you don't, you don't want to hurt them.

You don't want to scare them. 

Eli Kulp: [01:14:22] Listen, it is a little time. I mean, it's, you give as much information as you think that people can handle, but sometimes in the end they can handle a lot more and help you, but you feel like you're protecting them, but at the same time, it's sometimes better just to say it, you know?

Jim Burke: [01:14:40] Yeah. Especially with the people that are closest to you just have to like, let it out, let it all out. And like, this is, this is where we are. Um, and then we had to figure out how to tell the kids, um, that was, 

Eli Kulp: [01:14:53] yeah, 

Jim Burke: [01:14:55] that's something entirely different. And. And hard. 

Kristina Burke: [01:15:01] So they don't, I mean, it's out there in some print, you know, there's a lot of copy of it now out there.

Um, but we didn't now this is out there, but, um, we didn't tell them that it was stage four. Um, we told them that it was daddy had been now diagnosed also with cancer and that it was lung cancer. 

Jim Burke: [01:15:30] I mean, we did want to make sure that they knew that it was different 

Kristina Burke: [01:15:34] than I was not mentioning, not mentioning the spread of the brain.

Um, honestly my, our son and our daughter, I mean, but he's, it's, uh, it's too much. And they, the thing is they were just watched mom getting poked and prodded constantly for almost a full year. Um, And I think when you see it, you know, like what Jim was saying, you could look at him and not know. Right? 

Jim Burke: [01:16:03] Yeah.

There was no, you know, no physical manifestation of it. You know, I still lose my breath pretty quickly, but that's it. I mean, otherwise I feel right. I feel normal. I mean, physically, 

Kristina Burke: [01:16:15] but the bone infusions, I mean, you 

Jim Burke: [01:16:17] can, but I don't feel that on a day to day basis, it doesn't prevent me from doing anything.

Right. Right. Which is almost like a weird, in a way, you know, something so serious and uncontrollable that I like feel no, like so little physical effects from, it's almost bizarre in a way, 

Kristina Burke: [01:16:39] but that you do find that kids know more than, um, especially Daniel, because when I was diagnosed, we had looked into some, you know, did a little research.

And how do you talk to your kids, your young children about this, and then. They're four years apart. So what you tell one child, it's not really what you tell the other, and also take into consideration their personality differences, and, you know, just like managing a staff, you can't manage them all the same.

Right. So, um, I took a walk with Daniel, just him and I, and, uh, remember. Talking to him. Cause it was really weird for them because there was also a COVID scare. So we weren't with them when Jim was diagnosed, wasn't it, two weeks we went without seeing 

Jim Burke: [01:17:23] them because they were with your mom, we're at the beach.

And we, we decided to kind of keep them there for this time. Cause I was getting, you know, every day was like another phone call with the doctor with me or 

Kristina Burke: [01:17:33] also scans was a lot of images, a lot of back and 

Jim Burke: [01:17:36] forth. So it was like, and it was hard to, you know, it would have been too hard to keep it together in front of them.

I think at that point 

Kristina Burke: [01:17:43] we 

Jim Burke: [01:17:43] were really, so it was, uh, it was beneficial that they got to spend some time at the beach with my mom and my brother and sisters and their cousins and kind of nail not know about it yet. Um, 

Kristina Burke: [01:17:59] but then when Dan, when I took that walk with Dan, when they finally came back and we reunited, which was.

Really awesome. Um, just like a total puddle. We were a love Fest. We were all just on top of each other. And then I took a walk with Dan and I said, listen, I need to talk to you about this. Um, Jim and I of course had already spoken to both children at the same time about it, but I knew Dan needed to know more.

So I asked, you know, he's he asked me, I said, do you know daddy has been diagnosed? It's it's cancer, it's lung cancer. Um, you know, we want you to be able to ask any questions that you have and talk to us and how does this make you feel and know that the one thing that's not going to change is how we parent and how we're going to be here for you.

So he knew so much more. He said, what stage is it? And when he said that, I mean, I almost like my knees. I felt a little weak in the knees. And I said, um, what do you know from staging. And he said, well, I know that the higher up in the number you go, the more serious the cancer is. And he knew a lot more than I thought.

And he asked me where the tumor was and he asked me, um, 

Jim Burke: [01:19:11] did we even know the staging at that point? I came in a little bit later. I don't know. I remember that you took a phone call from Dr. Hutchinson who, and you, you told me. And I, I had just come back from somewhere, but that was a little bit 

Kristina Burke: [01:19:26] later. Yeah.

And he asked me about the tumor, where it was, how big it was, um, if they could do surgery, like mom had. And so, and again, I asked him the same question, what do you know about tumors? And he knew exactly. And then he asked me, um, mom, do you think I'm going to be in that book that I read? Because I think I'm the only kid.

I know that both parents have cancer and it's just like, Oh man, um, You know, it's a lot, it's a lot for a little guy. Yeah. And then you find out like when the writing comes home from school, Sadie had been writing about it. She was not really telling me certain things. And then I would find out like a new year's resolution was that, you know, she wanted to help learn.

She wanted to learn to make pancakes. Could we make them from scratch every weekend? And she wanted to help mom. Um, and mom was sick and I didn't know that. And so she was sharing it with some people and, um, it's how they process too. And so we decided to open them up to a little bit more. They came to radiation with me and, you know, you just it's part of their lives too.

Right. Right. So we can't shield them forever from this. And we don't, you know, we don't know where this is going to go, but we know that it's going to be a long, difficult road, but I know that they're really loving, empathetic, resilient kids and yeah. We'll all get through it 

Eli Kulp: [01:20:54] somehow some way, right? Yeah.

You through every crisis, every tough time in your life, whatever it is often. Great things happen from it. Um, when I got hurt, I had a ton of support in, in Philadelphia and in New York. Um, you know, a lot of time was given chefs showed up. It helps support me, help support my family, raised money for a lot of the stuff I was going through.

Um, spinal cord injury is about as expensive as, uh, injuries. You can get a long-term uh, so you know, all that stuff helped you guys started something very cool, Christina, I guess you're the one that probably knows best. Cause you started. Yeah. So tell people. What it is, how they can support it, how they can support Jim, um, you know, what, what can we do to help you guys out?

Kristina Burke: [01:21:44] Um, so I started something called tag time, happy hour, and basically the medicine that Jim takes his therapy right now is a once a day pill known as Tagrisso. And he has, um, just remarkably responded to it. And so, you know, so, so it's based around the med, 

Eli Kulp: [01:22:05] the cancer is being treated with this. This is a very specific therapy that's been developed for this specific gene 

Jim Burke: [01:22:14] mutation.

Kristina Burke: [01:22:15] Right? Exactly. And that's where we are in medicine right now. Thankfully like you said, the advancements are happening so fast that lung cancer actually just in the past five, three to five years, there's been. Phenomenal advancements. And that doesn't happen though, without somebody's champion being a champion for a cause.

And, um, when I started learning more, um, on my own about Jim's diagnosis, it led me to, um, something called EGF are resistors ETFR is the type of cancer that in his mind. And, um, it's called right sisters because at some point every patient that's on took her so will their body will build up a resistance to it.

And then it's all about finding the next therapy. Um, and it could be another pill that's where we are. Um, and so to advance that research, um, they need money to fund these projects. And EGF has, um, two projects right now that are very close to being funded cost about $200,000 per project. And, um, they raised over their goal and they came very close to 400,000, which these two clinicians now have, um, They're very close to getting it funded for these projects.

So I just thought, um, we started calling it tag time at home because he started taking the medicine, um, between five and six every night. Yeah. So it's one of 

Jim Burke: [01:23:43] those. You have to take it at the same time every day, just to maintain the, the amount in your, in your body. And that was the first. So we met with my oncology team on, on 20, the 24th and they processed the prescription and insurance okayed it by the 27th.

So we got the, we got the medication on the 27th. Christina went and got it from the Penn pharmacy and she was like, bringing it back. Like it was the Holy grail 

Kristina Burke: [01:24:13] because I had walked there and back every single day for radiation and none of the things that had. Cross my mind like that it was a very different process.

Coming back with his medication. All of a sudden, I was like, what if I get mugged? What if someone's going to steal this medication? I started like, gee, I don't ever really carry purses. And I was like, jamming it into this like Fanny pack and it wouldn't fit. And I was like, are people watching me shove this medicine?

Are they going to steal it? I started like running home with it. It was, I was home. It was later 

Jim Burke: [01:24:41] in the day when she got back. So it took it right away. And, and that became the time that I, that I take it. 

Kristina Burke: [01:24:48] So, um, because it's between five and six every, and it was, COVID like, we keep going back to, but everybody said, you know this, you know this from experience, what can we do?

What can we do? And honestly, nobody, everybody wanted to come give us hugs everyone to make us food, but also not because nobody wants to make two chefs food. Right. So they go, but they, um, what can we do? We want to be able to babysit your kids can't so I said, you know what? Just think of us. Think of Jim, make a toast.

He takes his medicine every night between five and six, raise the glass. Um, if you pray, pray, reflect on, reflect on it and send out good vibrations into the universe and little, you know, at that time I had no idea that that would take off and for months, I mean, even now my parents, every single day between five and six, send me a text and, um, people send Jim messages or they'll check on him, um, DMS or they'll they started sending us videos.

My cousin did this amazing drone video of all these people on a dock, just like lifting their glasses all six feet apart and said like, it's tag time, baby. And so I just thought, like being the planner that I am and the events operations, I was like, you know, there's something to this tag time and I bet we could actually make it a fundraiser.

And then, um, it was not the right timing though, because of COVID it was a real hard ass task. Anyone restaurants weren't even, I mean, some now aren't even up at going full capacity, but then a good friend of ours, uh, Jeremy Fox out in California, um, Messaged us. And he's just like, I can't just think of you guys anymore between five and six, I need to do something.

Do you mind if I host a happy hour with my relaunch of opening birdie, GS, and I say, I can't believe you asked this. I've been wanting to do this, but was really afraid to ask. And also didn't want people to think we were asking. Yeah, it's interesting. 

Eli Kulp: [01:26:38] Everybody, everyone wants to help. You don't want to be a burden on anybody 

Kristina Burke: [01:26:42] he's going through their own things.

Like we are not. Um, the thing I told my friends, when this all went down is like, please don't stop telling me about what your kids are doing or how your mom is, or your AK family vacation. Like I it's, we need that. We need that too. That's a sense of normalcy that we need to hear. And I don't really believe that we're going through anything more than like it's relative, you know, when you're living in it, everybody.

So. Tag time, you know, I joke now I tell Jeremy all the time, I'm like, you're the catalyst. He just helped me because he was the first one to offer it. And I was able to put it out in the world that it came from him in a way I was able to then ask our colleagues and friends. Um, and I did, I just said, listen, I mean, I started just like, I wanted to do a handful of people, close people, not like a giant ask of people that don't have a connection, a personal connection with Jim and myself.

And, um, it just started going like full 

Jim Burke: [01:27:39] throttle. Yeah, yes. First you reached out to the other best new chefs in the back 

Kristina Burke: [01:27:44] class, they're in it 

Jim Burke: [01:27:46] and then jumped right to the Philadelphia community. And the response has been unbelievable. 

Kristina Burke: [01:27:51] It's huge. It's huge. I mean, so basically if you go to www dot tag time, happy hour.org, there is, um, our story, but there's also a button to donate and that goes to EGF our resistors and longevity to privately fund research.

Does 

Eli Kulp: [01:28:09] money really matter 

Kristina Burke: [01:28:11] immensely. Cause once I think we're going to. We're going to break our goal of $25,000 and that's going to put them over their goal to fund these two really important studies. And it's basically like what happens next after Tagrisso and Tagrisso be taking with this other clinical trial medication?

Jim Burke: [01:28:30] Sure. When, when Jeremy first reached out, he was like, well, you know, I'll leave it up to you guys where, where it goes. And we talked to our, my oncologist about, you know, we wanted to make sure it was the most direct right to actual research. And there's lots of places you can give and the money all does some good.

Yes. But 

Kristina Burke: [01:28:48] there's more overhead. There's 

Jim Burke: [01:28:50] some, and we wanted it to go as directly as possible, too. Clinicians doing research. Uh, and we feel like this was the best. And I 

Kristina Burke: [01:28:59] think also it's become something really fun. It's now it's a fun ask because coming out of COVID, everybody wants to share a little joy.

They want to get some kind of back to something to talk about at their restaurants. That's happy something to bring people in, bring people together, community really matters, and they've all been incredibly gracious and, and wanting to do personal things back like Nick, um, Bassett over at Kensington quarters is doing something, uh, his version of the residual Alla Christina for a happy hour.

Um, Jim's going to do a collaboration sandwich with the guys that middle child. Um, there's just fun things happening almost every day of the month of may. And, um, no matter. So if you go onto the website, you can see a calendar of events and it's great. Know that you're not just supporting us. You're supporting this restaurant community.

And the restaurant community is the first in line always to ask to help others, you know, and they just, they step up. So I'm happy that this will hopefully, you know, shoot a little business their way too. 

Eli Kulp: [01:30:06] Cool. Well, everybody out there, again, tag time, happy hour.org, uh, check it out. Um, it's great to know that the donations are going directly to impact something that a friend in our community like Jim, you know, who's a need every little bit helps.

Um, you know, I'm happy to help get the word out there. It was great hearing an update on you guys and good 

Kristina Burke: [01:30:34] to see you. It's been so long and I mean, I listened to other people now. I'm like, wow, now I'm in the hot seat. There you go. Yeah. 

Eli Kulp: [01:30:42] You're not saying best of luck. God bless get through this. You know, good things are on the other side for you guys.

Yeah. 

Kristina Burke: [01:30:49] Something, I just try to keep in mind, like, uh, one thing that I would want to get across to everyone is that, um, things are, yeah, there are hard, right? And there's ugly moments. And, um, some moments in those days are harder than others. But like I say to the kids, um, all days are hard, but not all days are bad.

And I think this experience of starting tag time is helping me cope maybe and heal. Um, but also it shows people that you can still do good things and you can spread joy and find happiness and that's okay to do while something is going on. That's really hard that you can do it too. 

Jim Burke: [01:31:32] So, and I did want to say that, you know, you've been a.

A huge inspiration, uh, for me personally, just, you know, what, what you went through and to be able to, you know, make the very difficult decision to turn it into something new or positive and to, to change gears like that and, and to be able to do it successfully. And obviously we know that there are hard days and the hard moments throughout each day, that that will never go away.

Right. But, you know, choosing to focus on the positive and choosing to focus on the future is immensely important to me to, to getting through something like this. And you've done that. And, you know, I've, I found out about it more than, than you know, about how meaningful that is and how much I need to, uh, to adopt that exact mentality to.

To in order to, to, to get through this. So thank you. 

Eli Kulp: [01:32:39] Thank you. Yeah. As humans, we, we do what we have to do to survive and, and everything, but the stories help, the examples that are set forth in front of you do help, you know, people texting you. Oh 

Jim Burke: [01:32:59] yeah. So much more than you than you think. Right. 

Eli Kulp: [01:33:02] So much more.

Yeah. Whether it's on social media or whatever. Um, you know, what you guys are going through is, is a challenge that nobody would ever imagine, you know, um, going through, but we're, we're, we're all with you, you know, hoping for the best. And so anyways, thank you for being here today, as you're bringing your honest and genuine selves, you got it.

Uh, I think, um, this was great for me as well.

Thanks scene to the chef radio podcast. If you'd like to support the show, please leave us a review. Wherever you listen to your podcast, it helps others find the show and allows us to continue to make great content. The chef radio podcast is produced by radio kismet post-production and sound designed by studio D podcast production.

And I am your host Eli