Mentors, Comradery, and Community with Greg Vernick
PHILADELPHIA INQUIRER
This week, Eli Kulp sits down with Greg Vernick, owner of Vernick Food and Drink, Vernick Fish, Vernick at Home and Vernick Coffee Bar, all located in Philadelphia.
Eli describes Greg as a chef that, “just has a knack for creating food that’s craveable.” They discuss how Greg got into the restaurant industry, their old mentors and how vital a mentor can be, Philadelphia’s restaurant community, and how to take a day to day approach to owning a restaurant during a pandemic. Explore Greg Vernick’s cuisine at Vernick Restaurants.
Eli: [00:00:00] Hey everyone. Eli here. Welcome back to the CHEF Radio Podcast. We have a phenomenal podcast for you today to listen to you. Really a tremendous chef first and foremost, but he's also a friend, somebody who I can always depend on if I need to reach out for something is Greg Vernick, Vernick food and drink as well as a few other places such as Vernick Fish, Vernick Wine. Let's see what else I got. VerNick Coffee. So he's doing, he's doing some phenomenal work all around Philadelphia and has been for quite some time. Before we get to that though, uh, I hope you all had a great Thanksgiving as we are looking straight down the barrel at Christmas, you know, there's a lot going on.
We are in the full eating mode, at least around my place. We had a great Thanksgiving as of great pies, cookies, gingerbread houses. I mean, there's just [00:01:00] sugar, butter, and flour everywhere. And I'm going to make some pasta today. So yeah, try not to gain any more than 30 pounds this year. Just kidding. All right.
So what's going on out there. So, I mean, we continue to see the effect of COVID on our industry. That's something we will talk about today a little bit. Just here in old city, I noticed two more places, not restaurants, but two more retail shops have went under, um, I mean, the, the corridor just here in old city is getting devastated by COVID.
So there's definitely, uh, effecting all small businesses. I think restaurants and bars, obviously it is affecting in a slightly different way, but yeah, support local restaurants. Uh, we need you, um, if there's a way that you can support during the holidays through meals, uh, consider ordering your [00:02:00] holiday meal from a restaurant this year, uh, gift cards, handing out gift cards to people.
I know it's probably seems a little risky right now, but any way you can support your local restaurants so that we come out of this, hopefully in the spring in one piece, or at least as few pieces as possible. So. As always thank you for doing that guys. I know if you're listening to this podcast, restaurants are probably really important to you.
So I don't, I don't think you need to be told what to do, but maybe this will be just a little bit of a reminder. All right. So let's get to Greg. So Greg is, like I said, he's a phenomenal chef. He is a perennial standout when it comes to food in Philadelphia. His company doesn't stop. They keep turning out the hits and his menus are always consistent, always changing with fresh, with local supporting great farms.
And he just has a knack for creating food that's craveable. And that's [00:03:00] something I think is a real key to his, his success. Um, over the last eight years is just creating food that is extremely delicious, uh, relatively straight forward, you understand what you're getting, but then you, when it arrives to the table, it just has these flavors that just really pop and, you know, balance and acid.
These are all things that he learned um working for some phenomenal chefs as he came up in the industry. Some of the topics that we're going to be discussing. Uh, you know, cov is definitely one. Uh, we talked about mentorship. I think Greg and I both really think of mentorship as an important component to the success of our industry and the changes that we've seen over the last decade or so with just the way that.
You know, young cooks learn, uh, and then, you know, become chefs. You know, it's a different path these days, but we still really hope that the craft of cooking and, you know, the knowledge that you gained just day in and day out, hard work, [00:04:00] hard work, doesn't get lost. You know, quality of life, these are, these are things that we hear a lot more in the restaurant industry today, especially with the next generation coming through.
People want to make sure they have that quality of life, but how do we balance it, right? How do we balance a craftsmanship where you need thousands of hours of doing something to ensure that you're going to be the best chef possible and what will restaurants look like over the next decade when we see these young cooks that are currently on the lines, you know, the backbone of the restaurants as they become chefs, what will we see?
What will the food be like? I use the analogy of a of the wildfire, you know, COVID I think is that right now it's a wildfire comes through, it burns everything down. And then, you know, the, the little saplings and the little start start popping, popping up, uh, shortly after that wildfire goes through and, you know, I'm, I'm excited and curious about what [00:05:00] uh, and who those who those little, um, those restaurants and those chefs that will be popping up will be, and, um, you know, impacting our restaurant industry for the future.
So, uh, With that being said, I want to get to the show. I hope you enjoy. As always, follow us on Instagram, like us, review us. We really appreciate your reviews, especially on Apple podcasts. That always helps get the word out there. So enjoy the show if you have any questions, comments, or ideas, reach out to me on Instagram. Thanks everybody.
This is the CHEF radio podcast. Each week, groundbreaking chef talks. Chef talks, uh, chef. CHEF cooking, hospitality and environment, food. Is that really what it stands for? I never really knew that. Delivered to you straight from the minds of the people who shaped the way we eat. It's hard to believe the [00:06:00] possibility of food over. And we're going to discuss sponge cakes. These ideas and more, on the CHEF Radio podcast.
All right, everybody. We are back in the studio atRADIOKISMET here at 10th and Hamilton in the spring art section. Today's guest somebody who I've been trying to wrangle for awhile, but understandably, you know, he's got things to do. He's not to like me saying this, but he's one of Philadelphia's best chefs.
Uh, he is somebody who I've always respected. I consider you a very, a very earnest human, which is a quality that I th I really respect anyways, before I get too far down the road. Uh, we have Greg Vernick. Greg, welcome to the uh, RADIOKISMET and CHEF Radio Podcast.
Greg Vernick: [00:06:46] Thank you. Thank you very much. Uh, Eli, the feeling's mutual.
Eli: [00:06:49] Yeah. We, uh, I think I reached out to you originally in, around June. And you were like, I don't want to do, uh, some podcast over the phone because we weren't [00:07:00] recording the studio then. And so I was like, all right, we'll wait and see. So we finally got, we finally got our dates matched up.
Greg Vernick: [00:07:07] Yeah, yeah. I really wanted to do it. I just didn't feel, I felt like I couldn't emote with you over the phone. I don't, are the phone conversations different than the in-person?
Eli: [00:07:19] Yeah. A hundred percent. They feel more like you're in a box where this feels more like, of course, face to face. And even though we've got some plexiglass in between us, um, Saving ourselves from COVID hopefully.
Greg Vernick: [00:07:34] It definitely feels better to be here. Yeah. I feel like I would have said completely different things if I was over the phone,
Eli: [00:07:39] The studio has a much better sound,
Greg Vernick: [00:07:40] I would have had like notes and, you know, I dunno, Wikipedia up some, some shit like that.
Eli: [00:07:46] All right. So if you don't know, Greg, Greg came back to Philadelphia, what was that 2011, 2010?
Greg Vernick: [00:07:54] Exactly. 2011.
Eli: [00:07:55] Yeah. And so, uh, you opened, uh, [00:08:00] Vernick Food and Drink. Uh that's what like 20th
Greg Vernick: [00:08:04] 31 Walnut street,
Eli: [00:08:05] 2031 Walnut street. Um, great space. And then from there. Uh, you've slowly but surely, um, sort of built a little restaurant, uh, group. Um, you see, now you have Vernick Fish, which in the Four Seasons, you have Vernick coffee bar, which is in the new Comcast center. And you have most recently Vernick Wine. Did I get all that right?
Greg Vernick: [00:08:32] Yeah. Yeah. We got to end the Vernick. We got to come up with new names here if we keep this going.
Eli: [00:08:39] Not sure what you're gonna, how you're going to get away with that though. People are going to be like, who is that? Yeah, no, I mean, you've built a really great reputation.
Um, You know, Craig Leband, uh, obviously as, as, as recognize your work and, and, you know, multiple times saying that you're cooking the best food in Philadelphia. [00:09:00] Consistency is something that is hard to come by and you guys do it tremendously well. You've had great partners from the beginning. I mean, that's consistent right there.
You have, uh, your wife, Julia as a partner, obviously, and then Ryan, right? Yeah. Yeah. And Ryan came, you guys met where up in?
Greg Vernick: [00:09:18] yeah. So Ryan, Ryan and I are our friends for now 20 years. Plus we were, we were in school together in college at Boston university, and we both got the restaurant bug up in Boston pretty early.
And he stayed in Boston when I went to culinary school. And then when I had to take my externship, I went back up there. And he got me my internship. He got me the job at Cleo. And we worked together there.
Eli: [00:09:47] You were at Cleo with Ken Oranger, correct.
Greg Vernick: [00:09:49] Okay. Yeah,
Eli: [00:09:50] I know. Is he front of the house?
Greg Vernick: [00:09:51] He was front and I was
Eli: [00:09:53] both in like a hospitality school. Like, did they have, like, it was a hospitality degree or was it?
Greg Vernick: [00:09:58] I was in, I was at the [00:10:00] Culinary Institute and Ryan was just working. That was his job.
Eli: [00:10:02] What about at Boston college for your undergrad?
Greg Vernick: [00:10:05] BU. Yeah, BU I was in the school of hospitality administration.
Eli: [00:10:09] Okay. Okay. All right. So, um, where are you from? Like what's, what's your story, everybody out there listening is probably wondering kind of your background. Uh, it talk to us about like growing up where you grew up was food to you? When did it sort of, when did you get that bug?
Greg Vernick: [00:10:26] Yeah, man. Um, so I'm from Cherry Hill, New Jersey, which as far as I know, it's still a suburb of Philadelphia, even though it's in New Jersey.
And there's a few of those certainly. And I grew up in a household that was always cooking. My mom was always cooking and she had a restaurant. So a lot of my memory as a young child yeah. Is, is in the kitchen, whether it's at my mom's restaurant at the time, which was like a little luncheonette and had [00:11:00] him field, or was in, you know, the heart of the house, which was our kitchen.
So I was exposed to a lot of different foods at a young age. And I, I remember being very young and my mom used to do, we used to go the mall and my mom would get sushi at the mall at one of those like sushi, food court things. And so I was eating sushi really young. Um, I don't, I'm not sure I would go there now.
Eli: [00:11:24] Yeah. Which is weird. You, you have a little more knowledge, I don't
Greg Vernick: [00:11:27] know. Yeah. Right. But, um, and then, you know, when, you know, your family has a restaurant and that became part of our daily routine was something involving my mom's restaurant. My father's business was in the same town as my mom's restaurant.
So I spent a lot of time in Haddonfield and I was like a normal, you know, a normal kid. I liked sports. I liked theater. I liked music. I got in trouble. I did okay. In school. Um, I don't have like any crazy war [00:12:00] stories about, about that timeline about that time of my life. I just remember, I w I was, uh, I used to go to camp in the summers.
And at some point, I guess I was like 12 or 13. My parents said, you're not going to camp this summer. You need to get a job. And that is, that was where, like, we'll help you get a job, you know, you can do anything you want. But you need to get a job, you need to have a summer job. So the only thing I knew was what I was familiar with, which was food and restaurants.
And so my mom helped me. I think this was back before computers. So it was probably a typewriter. We typed out like a fake resume, you know, that had my grades on it, my hobbies and my, and we went down the shore to under the Jersey shore. And there's a main strip in Margate Ventnor, Atlantic City called Atlantic Avenue, has all the restaurants, right.
We just drove up and down Atlantic Avenue. When I dropped off my resume and I got a job, I got hired on the spot at [00:13:00] some, at nuts, some at a little beach grill called Lucy's Beach Grill, you know, the big elephant. So at Lucy, the elephant, they have a little beach grill right on, right on the, on the beach there. And they hired me as a short order cook.
Eli: [00:13:12] Really?
Greg Vernick: [00:13:12] Yeah. Wow. And so that was my first. Job.
Eli: [00:13:17] Very cool.
Greg Vernick: [00:13:17] And, uh, it sort of started from there and
Eli: [00:13:21] every summer from then you would
Greg Vernick: [00:13:22] For four summers, I would. Yeah, I, you know, and I fell in love with it. You, you, the same things I love now about our, our industry. I remember loving back then the people, the comradery, you know, the hands-on work.
Yep. You know, the late nights getting out and hanging out with your friends.
Eli: [00:13:39] Can we say at 14, 15 years old, he probably experienced, you know, some of the, uh, I'm sure there was some cooks in the kitchen that were probably a little bit older and Oh yeah.
Greg Vernick: [00:13:48] You get exposed to it. You see things that, you know aren't right.
Um, but you still see him,
Eli: [00:13:56] right? Absolutely. Um, just give me [00:14:00] for a little bit, you know, from a culinary standpoint, as you grew, as you entered into like, you know, actual, you know, post-school and all that, what were some of the more influential kitchens that you, uh, cooked in? The ones that really informed that you still probably use in your, uh, cooking techniques today?
Yeah. Well, the
Greg Vernick: [00:14:21] first, the first fine dining experience I had was at Cleo as an extern for, for school. Um, and that was incredibly eyeopening and I, to this day, Give Ken and that restaurant so much credit, um, for what they did. That was an, that was an amazing restaurant in Boston. And I still think it was one of the best ever, that I ever was part of, that I ever ate at.
Um, I had eaten there once before and I remember loving it and, um, I tell people can, and the Cleo kitchen [00:15:00] really taught me how to think outside the box. Like they took. So many risks as a kitchen and as hard as it was, and it was painful. This was back before I almost want to say this was the old school kitchen, you know, and I don't, I don't have to say much to you about what that was, but that was an old school environment.
But you know, just an example is I remember on Wednesdays, we used to get something called the hate box. And I had just started there and I was, this big white box would show up and the cooks would be like, Oh, the hate box here. And we wouldn't, we wouldn't be allowed to open it. You know, when it was probably like five feet long by three feet, like fully insulated white box taped up really well, you know, Japanese lettering on it.
And then chef would come in and Ken would come in and he would open the box and it would be a squeegee market fish box. And it would just be an assortment of just incredible things, live [00:16:00] search and needle fish, uh, all these different snappers and fin fish. And he would just sit there and comb through the box and just give us jobs.
And we would be in the middle of our prep day, which was already a grind. Like I, you know, I was brand new at this and then he would just give us projects. And there was no, like, can you get this done? There was no, like, what do you need to get this done? It was just like, get this done. And that's why it was the hate box, because it would throw everybody's day off.
Eli: [00:16:29] Big wrench in everybody's prep.
Greg Vernick: [00:16:31] But I remember seeing, I mean like live King crabs still alive, and you would be like, all right, all right, Greg, get a corporal young going in and poach this off, you know, make a vinegarette from the tamale and mustard, clean out the legs and we're gonna do a salad. And I'm like, I'm like trying to just keep up with taking notes.
Um, but I feel like that had a tremendous influence on the way I am now as a chef. And just being able to think on the fly and you have to be a little bit fearless, which I know you are, [00:17:00] because I remember when you got to fork and what an impact you had on that restaurant and what you, you know, you made some major changes there.
And I, and I remember hearing about you and just like. Look, here's the one example I'll give you. There wasn't a lot of whimsical cooking in Philly when we got here. And I remember hearing about, mm, and I'm like, is he really doing that? Is he really doing a play? Uh, and I was like, that's when social media started and you were getting a ton of press and I ate there and it was fucking amazing and everything was, but I remember thinking this guy has found a way to bridge, like very honest, And beautiful technique and be whimsical at the same time, which is something I'm still trying to figure out how to do.
I'm like, dammit, dammit. How did he figure out how to? You know? Yeah.
Eli: [00:17:54] Yeah. Always for me, like having fun with the food is always, you have to core, you know, I always [00:18:00] always tell people if you can cook great food. Awesome. If you can cook a little story in it it's even better. Yeah. You know, so,
Greg Vernick: [00:18:08] but that there wasn't a lot of that. You, you. I mean, as far as my memory goes, there was a couple people doing it. And Phil, you were the first one who's who I can remember who was doing it. And. Was backing it up with deliciousness and backing it up with technique. And there were a couple of things. I remember you did the thing with, with hot sauce on the side and the little squeeze bottle. Like, was it like chicken nuggets?
Eli: [00:18:31] Or something? Chicken nuggets out to getting him?
Greg Vernick: [00:18:32] Come on, man. I remember sitting at a bar. Yeah, you gotta like, is this guy really doing chicken nuggets? And they were so delicious.
Eli: [00:18:40] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, whatever works, you know, but like throw it against the wall
Greg Vernick: [00:18:45] to happen.
We needed that. We needed to have that inspiration of that. Like almost I don't give a shit what's going to happen. I'm going to roll the dice and see, and just go,
Eli: [00:18:54] I appreciate you saying that.
Greg Vernick: [00:18:55] Yeah. I'm not blowing smoke. I mean, Solomona was [00:19:00] the one who told me about the chicken nuggets. Oh yeah. There was chatter.
Eli: [00:19:03] Yo who's this? Who's this Apple chicken nuggets. Big time chef from New York. I
Greg Vernick: [00:19:08] gotta go. I gotta go. I gotta go try
Eli: [00:19:09] this. Well, Mike was yeah. Early on. He was a big supporter as well. So yeah, no, I, it was such a pleasure coming to Philadelphia because you know, everybody would come in, like, sure. You're curious, but it's also a very supportive atmosphere, isn't it.
In New York. Yeah. I mean, you'd be, probably felt the same thing.
Greg Vernick: [00:19:28] It was one of the things I was hoping we could talk about. Um, because I was curious whether you had that same experience that I did, cause I know I'm kind of a local guy, so I know I was embraced by a lot of the community and it was, it was.
It had so much value to our business and, and to, to me, and, and to the way we ran our restaurant was how we were welcomed. And I hadn't experienced that in New York at all. No. And I was wondering if, if when you came, did you have that sort of [00:20:00] same feeling?
Eli: [00:20:01] Oh, no doubt. I think, you know, a big part of that was because, you know, my partner is Ellen Ian who's well-respected and, you know, I think in general, people are gonna like, you immediately, I immediately got like some credit because of that.
However, You know, from a chef to chef standpoint, specifically, right out of the Gates, you know, as you guys, uh, Nick, you know, Mike, all these guys that would pop in, um, Scott Schroeder, you know, like all these guys that were curious but supportive at the same time. Yeah. And that's something that was really heartwarming.
I still think that happens to people. I think, you know, when you. I think you were just open when I started interviewing down here, somewhere Ellen took me there the first day I came, uh, to your place and you know, it was, I was about ready to come down. Pete Serpico had just come down from New York. You were here.
Um, Mike was starting to blow up a little bit. So that generation we're kind of all in the same [00:21:00] age bracket, um, more or less. And. You know, so there was this, you know, it's around 2012. So, you know, there was this real energy I thought that was happening in Philadelphia. That was really excited to play a part.
I think the fact that you were had just opened and come from New York. And then Pete Serpico goes here. If you hadn't opened. And Pete hadn't come, I probably would have never came to Philadelphia. Like that, that showed me that there was something going on that I could, I didn't want to be tied down to like having to cook just for Philadelphia and like a conservative city, like Philadelphia, the fact that you guys were here and you guys were already sort of doing it.
And there was obviously, people were very accepting of that. I was like, okay. I think I can do it here and I'm not going to have to sacrifice what I want to do to cook a toned down version of it. [00:22:00] And I felt like I come down here and really just cook what I wanted to cook, how I wanted to cook and it worked out, you know, and, but yeah, if you hadn't been here and Pete, I would've never come to Philadelphia.
I appreciate hearing that. I mean, I can say this, that I don't think that Philadelphia dining scene would be what it is now had you not come down here.
There's the full circle. Um, and even your, you know, I think about like how hard the sophomore album is, like how hard the second spot is. And High Street again was just, I remember you telling me it was like the food you want to cook, the food you want to eat. That was very, uh, that was a heartfelt restaurant.
Well, I love sandwiches and it was always my dream to open a sandwich shop. So High Street was that for me. Yeah. People listening right now. They're probably listen to these two guys, just patting each other on the back,
Greg Vernick: [00:22:53] Well good. I mean, I, you know, Hey, let him, let him listen.
You know, it [00:23:00] doesn't always have to be war stories, you know? And, and, um, I know people want to hear the underbelly, because that's, what's interesting and they want to hear sort of the salt wounds of what we've been through, but there's also, there's also a beauty to the industry that I want to continue to promote, you know, and I don't want that to go away in a, in this tough climate. I want to be able to rebuild and still have it.
Eli: [00:23:30] Really well said. Yeah, really well said, you kind of brought us to kind of current day there with, you know, especially what's going on with, you know, um, COVID and everybody scrambling, trying to figure out how to survive, how to hold on, you know, and the, and the, what ifs of will the art will our industry ever maintain some level of.
Kind of the [00:24:00] craft of what we do and you know, the love for what we do, because right now there's no craft or love happening. It's literally trying to figure out what you can put on the menu that doesn't involve a lot of labor. Doesn't cost a lot of money and that people will buy and you can serve it in a takeout box.
Greg Vernick: [00:24:21] It's incredibly sad. Uh, it, it, you know, As chefs we, we preach, we coach all the time about not having tunnel vision, like stop looking straight down at your cutting board. Don't just think about your job and your position. Put yourself in the mind of a server, put yourself in the mind of the dishwasher.
Try to get in the mind of the vendor of the manager, try and see the restaurant as as everybody sees it. And I find myself now, Almost [00:25:00] embracing tunnel vision. It's almost easier to just be very, very like fucking granular. It's like, Oh, let's take it month by month. Let's take it week by week. Now it's day to day.
Some days are hour to hour and that's just how we need to approach this. Well, and, um, you know, there will be another side of it. Will we ever go back to that period when we first started in Philly, when there was like that feeling? I don't know the answer, but I do think there is an opportunity to rebuild and there will be beauty again, in our, in our business and in our, in our line of work.
But it's going to be different. I mean, don't you think
Eli: [00:25:41] I would only have to say yes. I mean, It will take, I think there's going to be like a three to five-year wound healing period of trying to get back to where things were. It's kinda like, um, I used the analogy of like a forest fire, right. Comes [00:26:00] through wipes, everything down, right?
Like trees, underbrush, everything's gone. It looks, you know, apocalyptic. And then things start to grow relatively quickly. I think that's kind of what we're experiencing and, you know, whatever those new growths are that are going to come out of it and how we're going to be thinking about the restaurant industry and you know, old dogs like us.
Now, we might be not able to see what the next thing is because we're holding on to what we know, you know? So I wonder, you know, who will be the young chefs, the young operators that are going to come through now and start to pop up that maybe have a different perspective or they did not get crushed. So they don't have that, that sort of scare or fear, uh, going forward, you know, are pandemics going to be something that we need to worry about more often now, is this something that we have to build our, [00:27:00] our model to withstand something like this?
We don't know that because that question is not answered, but you know, it's hard to say kind of what, what it's going to look like. Um, I think what I, what I hope. Is that people think it's almost like when, when somebody passes away, that's close to you. You start thinking about what's really important in life, right?
Same thing with this, like there's, there's grief happening all over our industry. People are losing their, you know, their life savings, their, you know, their, their dreams. And you start to think about what's really important to you. So hopefully what I, what I hope is that people start thinking about what's truly necessary when it comes to restaurants, what our purpose is bigger than just feeding humans and getting a paycheck.
I think we have so much to offer when it comes to the future of our planet, the [00:28:00] way we are approaching, uh, leadership from now on, you know, from a sort of a growth mentality and, you know, our role in sort of really minimizing our, our impact on climate change and everything else, because I think that's something that we have been able to, a lot of people while you're scrambling, but maybe it's time.
You have time to kind of think about that, you know, think about your communities. You know, like I hope that chefs start thinking more about how can they use their influence or their. Or their, um, status or however, you can be helpful into reaching out to communities that are in need, you know, those types of things.
So that's why I hope, um, where people will kind of, kind of, you know, reset their, their sort of expectations, um, and use this moment as a time to do that.
Greg Vernick: [00:28:55] I mean, we've all, we've all had everybody in our businesses had time to [00:29:00] reflect and sit back and be like, not just on the industry, but on themselves and on their careers. I think a lot of people are making some pretty tough decisions as they go through this process. Um, I worry that too many people are going to start waving the flag and saying, I'm going to go into something else. You know, like we've had staff members say we're going back to school or we're going into a different industry.
And I worry that that's going to continue to multiply as this stretches out longer, but we also have an opportunity to your point. It's like you can reflect and get to work. You can find ways. And there, there is, there is things to do that can help pay it forward. It just takes a little bit of work. Just takes you to get off the couch.
Yeah. You know, and it's tough because a lot of people are on the couch right now.
Eli: [00:29:50] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's a little bit of fearlessness that you're going to have to, people are going to have to come to grips with and, you know, figure out. How they're [00:30:00] going to kind of move forward if they have that dream, uh, to open something new or they just want to get back in the game in some level and other, I know, like I know chefs that were on the verge of, you know, their first spot and now they're unemployed.
They're cooking private dinners to just keep, you know, keep the lights on at home. So. It's tough, man. It's really tough. And it's only looking more grim. By the time this comes out. I mean, in a month it's recording-
Greg Vernick: [00:30:29] We might be in the heart of it. Yeah.
Eli: [00:30:32] We might just be back at home. That's
Greg Vernick: [00:30:35] why, you know, we're in this place where it's like, let's just take it one day at a time. If we can win the win the day and live to fight another one. That's that's that's a positive.
Eli: [00:30:44] Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, kind of what we're talking about right now, to me also, I think one of the key components of us getting out of this is sort of the resilience, uh, that we, a lot of us possess [00:31:00] just being in the industry.
It's something that is kind of like what you were talking about with the box, you know, being resilient in your moment, whether it's just the day to get through and get ready for service without, you know, crashing service and having, uh, the chef or the sous chefs up your ass, because you're not set up on time.
And, you know, what that builds, that builds that, that resiliency, um, you know, what are, what are some examples of, you know, times when, you know, you look back and you're like, okay, well, there was a moment time or a one specific, uh, moment or a few moments. What are some of the more fond memories that you have when it comes to uh, when you started to really sort of build tools that, you know, that were more, um, gave you that resilience that you have today?
Greg Vernick: [00:31:52] Well, I think from a, from like a, a larger ticket, uh, topic, I [00:32:00] think for me, I was lucky enough to have mentors and I had people mentor me. And I don't know if this is, I might be dodging this question a little bit so forgive me, um, but I. Well, when I came up, you know, that was a huge part of, of being in a kitchen, was having a mentor, having a person or persons that you aspire to be, that you would absorb everything. You remember everything they say. Um, and I had mentors and, um, that I still, when I make decisions now I still tell myself, what would this person say? What would this person do? And then I
Eli: [00:32:38] Who are those, like-
Greg Vernick: [00:32:40] I mean, look, Ken, Ken was in the beginning, Ken Oranger. Um, and then, uh, the, the chef who hired me when I started with John George, which was a very long run in my career, which was Greg Brainin, who was a mentor for a lot of us. Like we're a community of people who all, um, we're kind of [00:33:00] trained under this under this person.
Eli: [00:33:03] And, um, was he, uh, John Georges, uh, corporate, like main he's the main guy?
Greg Vernick: [00:33:10] Right? Main guy. And his name is Greg and he was the chef de cuisine at Perry street when I was hired, when we opened it and I would hear the name, Greg, uh, you know, 1800 times a day. And maybe once it was for me, I was like, uh, you know, I was popping my head up every 10 seconds now. It's not me, Greg. Nah, not me. You know, so I just kept my head down. That's still, I got through there. Um, but, but you know, I find there to be a, maybe a lack of that happening right now.
So forgive me if I'm getting off topic, you know, reign me back in if you have to, but. I feel like young cooks, young chefs, young people are just missing. There's a link missing where they need to find a person that they can connect with and allow that person to be their mentor. And I don't know [00:34:00] if it's because of social media.
I don't know if it's because of just the world we're in right now and the way restaurants are being structured or managed. But I find that to be a link that needs to be strengthened. Listen, you know, just do what you're told, you know. Just do it. That's what I was, you know, that's how I came up. I just did what I was told, you know, and I worry that that's fading too much is, is the idea of a mentor.
So I had mentors, you know, uh, you know, starting with my parents, you know, they're, they they've been mentors to me. Um, my wife's a mentor to me. I look up to her, you know, I, I don't, I don't know. Maybe it's an ego thing where people can't accept. That I don't know.
Eli: [00:34:48] Well, I mean, I appreciate what you're saying because you know, I, I didn't have, you know, a mentor can be, you know, they might not even know that they're your mentor or you might not know that they're your [00:35:00] mentor at the moment.
Right. But. Like looking back at me, uh, my career, you know, having Mark Ladner at Del Posto, he didn't, if I I've told them that, like, I really looked at you as my mentor, he'd be like, he laughs at it. You know, it was like, cause he's the most humble guy ever. Right. So, but it doesn't have to be like, Hey, will you be my mentor?
It's just somebody who you're like everything they say is gold and their, their techniques, their thought process, their, um, ideas, they go into your DNA. They, they, they go that far in you and it becomes part of who you are and it's the absorption of their knowledge and their style and everything else. Like that's when you're like, okay, that's a mentor to me. You know what I mean?
Greg Vernick: [00:35:48] Yeah. I mean, the only thing I'll say to challenge you on that is that, and look, I have a ton of respect for Ladner and I understand what you're saying, but he knows, he laughs it off. But [00:36:00] yeah, no, when someone's looking up to you and you, you you're like, all right, I got to put in a little bit extra work with this guy because they they're, they're really they're really honed in on, on me and my career and what I'm doing.
And, you know, you know, when you have someone who's, who's looking up to you and you've got to put the work in. So, so I know it doesn't have to be like a straight declaration, like, Hey, you're my mentor. Can you sign on this paper? But, but you have to recognize that there are people on your staff and in your life that you have to influence, you have to help.
You have to help kind of clear the path for them. And I feel like, yeah, I mean the same to the same thing. I don't, if I told Greg that he was my mentor, he would tell me to shut up, you know, and push, get my head down, um, go find a cutting board, you know, so, so I hear you, but you also have to accept that responsibility, which maybe is a challenge to chefs out there who are listening.
Like [00:37:00] you need to accept the responsibility. It's not just, you know, putting the beautiful dish on the menu, getting it on social media, putting asses in the seats and going home. You know, there, there is, there's another very important aspect of what you do that you can't deny.
And that, that takes work. Right. You know, I want to go home to my family. I want to, I want to have my own time. But, you know, I have to tell myself, I have to, you know, I can't turn my shoulder on this. I can't, I can't turn it.
Eli: [00:37:31] I think we, you know, we have that responsibility to kind of pass that knowledge on because I mean, our industry is a legacy industry, right. I mean, nothing's really new.
Greg Vernick: [00:37:41] Nothing's new. We're
Eli: [00:37:43] We're only learning from what's already been put out there. We're just, you know, as, as, when you become a, in my mind being a chef is not a title, being a chef is when you're able to kind of take everything that you've learned and started distilling it into your own [00:38:00] language, food language.
And, you know, it's more of a feeling to me than a title. Everybody can be a chef these days. Um, Instagram chefs all over the place, right. They call themselves chefs.
Greg Vernick: [00:38:10] It's scary.
Eli: [00:38:11] Yeah. It's scary. It's a different meaning these days. Right. But without a doubt, um, you know, taking something you see off the internet and, you know, just reconfiguring it and calling it yours, it's not the same. And, you know, you don't get that way unless you put in the time and the effort.
Greg Vernick: [00:38:29] I mean, when you, when you think of dishes and this is something I've, I still don't do, do you think of what it's going to look like before you build it? Or do you build it and then deal with the presentation after the recipes are built?
And because I don't cook like that, I don't have the visual of the plate. I have like, let's put this with this, let's have this combination. Let's work the recipes, let's get everything in front of us. And then we'll start tweaking the plate post creation, if you will.
Eli: [00:38:58] I think I was most [00:39:00] successful, uh, when I would take the time and draw it out on paper, label the ingredients look at it and kind of taste it through the paper. I did a lot of sketching. You did that. That's sort of, that was what I did most of the time when it came to thinking about new menu. So each, each as the seasons would progress, you know, just taking, you know, just whether it was on the train coming and going between New York and Philly or, you know, just being in the restaurant early in the morning and just kind of visually kind of building them on paper first.
I think if I did that, I had a 30 or 40% better chance of it being right the first time, rather than just becoming frustrated. Because a lot of times, if I didn't do that, I would become frustrated, but the final product and often not have the energy to kind of.
Redo it or have the time it's a lot of times you just [00:40:00] don't have the time to sit there and mess with the dish three or four or five times. So I think my success rate was higher, but I did, I did, I could do both ways. Um, you know, now at home, you know, it's more like what's in the fridge kind of put together and you kinda know what you're going to get. And it deviates, you know, 15, 20%.
Greg Vernick: [00:40:17] I see people a little too much worrying about what it's going to look like first and not how it's going to taste. I see, I, you know, I don't mean like, I, I understand the importance of social media. Obviously. That's a whole different talking point. It's probably a bunch of podcasts out there, but how do you know?
It's like, how do you, how do you instill in someone that it's gotta be delicious first, like focus on the mise and plus, and then we can play around with how it's going to photograph.
Eli: [00:40:49] A hundred percent. You have to build those flavors as layers of flavors. It's not superficial flavors. So I think there's the difference of, you know, the superficial flavors versus [00:41:00] something that's deep.
And the guest is the ones that, you know, they taste it for the first time and they pause for a second. They can kind of, we have to work through those flavors. That's something you guys do really well. I mean, without your food, Is not flashy. It's it's it is very, very, um, beautiful. No doubt. There's a beauty to it.
Like you don't, you don't mess with it too much, but when you taste it, you know, there was a process to get
Greg Vernick: [00:41:31] there. A lot of work that goes into it.
Eli: [00:41:33] Yeah.
Greg Vernick: [00:41:34] Yeah. I mean, it's funny because so much of the conversation in kitchens now, you know, I don't, I don't do as much talking as I did, but you, you listen and I don't mind, I'm a chef that doesn't mind conversation, as long as you're getting your work done.
You're heads down. You're you're, you're you're on pace. I don't mind conversation. I like that. Um, so much of it is like, did you see what this person posted? Or did you read, or did you listen to, you know, and [00:42:00] you know, what about the book?
Eli: [00:42:02] You know, the old book?
Greg Vernick: [00:42:04] You know, what about, you know, that, uh, and, uh, yeah, I still find myself, that's sort of, my process is going through the books a lot, a lot more than scrolling through the internet. Um, and for me, that's very healthy. That's that's that that's helpful is going through the books, but, but yeah, our food. Our food has evolved over the years and that's something I love about what we do.
And, um, I try to surround, look, I know Eli that I'm not the smartest person in the room. I know that I've accepted that, but I know that I need to surround myself with smart people and different people with different backgrounds and different approaches to cooking. It only helps us and over, over the years, you can see how our food is evolved.
And changed. And I love that. We're not stuck in any sort of box, [00:43:00] and maybe that's the joy of owning and operating your own business instead of having, you know, layers of a flagpole to chase up to, you know, to get approvals. Um, so yeah, I, I, I'm very excited for what the future holds for our restaurants, because, you know, I don't really have allegiance to anything. You know, other than it being delicious.
Eli: [00:43:28] Hey, everyone want to take a quick break and give a pro bono shout out this week. I'm going to highlight The Angelo Pizza. Yes. The shop's name is The Angelo Pizza because the kid's name who is making the pizzas there is Angelo Pizza. So his dad was a pizza maker in Baltimore, I think with the last name like that, I think it kind of pigeonholes you a little bit, but uh, yeah, this, this young guy, Angelo, start-up his first spot.
He's doing some phenomenal pizzas, the little unique, [00:44:00] uh, he does his own take on them. Highly recommend it. They're in high demand right now. So get your order in, but yeah. The Angelo Pizza, look it up and you will not be disappointed.
What would you say is a leadership lesson or a leadership guideline that you like to follow or kind of hold yourself to, um, this it's kind of the backbone or what's, what's made you successful in creating kitchens that people stayed in and they work, they, you know, a lot, a lot of, I mean, we all have turnover, but I know people that have worked with you for a long time and they, you know, they stay with you.
Um, because turnover is one of the hardest things that we deal with. What are some of the, what's your style specifically? Um, that kind of helps you, um, do what you do?
Greg Vernick: [00:44:58] Uh, [00:45:00] a big one for us. It's not just me, but our entire restaurant is seeing everybody on the same level. And, uh, it's something we talk about all the time. It doesn't matter what your position is at the restaurant, whether you're a manager, whether you're a dishwasher, whether you're a server busser, runner, whether you're the person delivering dry goods. Whether you're a vendor on the phone, everybody gets treated with the level, whether you, whether you have a full, you know, you're 16 years old or 17 years old, ear piercings and tattoos everywhere, or your change of career, and you're in your forties, everybody has to get the same level of respect.
And, you know, Ryan always teaches me that you need to put the effort in to anybody that you hire. You know, even if it's not going well, And even if, you know, pretty early on that, like this might not work out. This might be a short, a short run for this person. [00:46:00] And you might see the runway of this employee.
You have to put a hundred percent into at least trying to get them to that next to that next part of their existence in, in, in your business. Um, but it involves just being, and this is the same, probably that, that you are, it's being on the line. It's being on the line. It's being in the kitchen. It's not being in an office.
It's not holding a clipboard, but it's just, you know, we've always created kitchens where the chef expedites. And, you know, he expedites from the inside of the line. So he's on the line with his cooks expediting, and we have a front of the house employee expedite on the other side of the line. And so, so that was, that's still remains a big part of my motivation is like, I need to get there.
I need to get in. I need to get, I got to do something, you know, um, right now it's, you know, even if I'm making takeout, right. You know, which we're, you know, we're doing soups a lot, but I'm just there.
Eli: [00:46:58] Yeah.
Greg Vernick: [00:46:59] And then [00:47:00] the other thing I would say is the ability to evolve, the ability to not fear change don't have allegiance to any dish, don't have allegiance to any style, you know, be open minded and give people the opportunity to, you know, at least explore their creative side. You know, and we've always done that. We've always allowed our staff members our let's just say from a, from a back of the house, our cooks to explore different dishes and work on things.
I always say that this is what John George used to say to me, you know, work on these things on my dime. So I tell the guys, you know, work on these dishes on my dime while you can, if it doesn't work out, I'll take the hit. But at least you learned where you fucked up and you can, you know, you, you know, maybe we can turn it into something or maybe you can bring it back when you're in an opportunity to be the chef.
Right. So, so giving, giving people [00:48:00] a little bit of creative window to explore has been very rewarding for me. And I think it pays off with the morale.
Eli: [00:48:11] It does. I mean, you know, cooks. No. I think we all remember like slow nights when I was external Oceana, you know, we'd do something akin to, uh, iron chef. We would do something akin to iron chef, you know, and we would just, you know, the chef would be like, all right.
Yeah. Yeah, Tim is gathered and you got an hour to finish, you know, and just that energy of everybody just kind of going and he tastes everything. And then he kind of, you know, give you the crowns somebody the champion, and, you know, you have that sort of, that you wearing that badge, you know, that proud badge for awhile.
Like those moments of doing that, that I remember. And, you know, I try to, I always try to allow that creative freedom as well, you know, to a certain degree, to a certain degree, obviously you gotta get [00:49:00] your work done first and foremost, but you know, when you have the opportunity to kind of bring in. Yeah, well, I was working on dish and, you know, everybody's kind of watching me on the corner of their eye and they see me working on a dish all day long, you know, and then bringing them in and saying, okay, what do you guys think about this?
You know, taste it from the ground up, you know, let me hear what you think, you know, is there a seasoning balance, you know, salt, all that, and those moments, I think really kind of make people feel like they're a part of something, right. Obviously. So, yeah. I appreciate you saying that. Yeah. Yeah.
Greg Vernick: [00:49:33] It's also avoiding the drama .You know, I feel like we came up, you know, 15 years ago it was very competitive and there was a lot of drama in kitchens and the environment was tense and finding a way to evolve the, what do you call it? The, just the, the emotion of the kitchen. Right? You know, you want it to be [00:50:00] intense. You need to have a level of grit about you and push, but you want people to be, feel good and enjoy coming into work every day. Striking that balance is still something I'm trying to figure out.
Eli: [00:50:13] Yeah. Cool, man. Um, I feel like we'd be here all day. I know we're done. Well, I done done. Um, I do, I do have the 11 question session. I like to throw out random questions to kind of wrap
Greg Vernick: [00:50:28] it up. Uh, rapid fire,
Eli: [00:50:31] rapid fire. Yes. Cue the music. No, we don't really have music. Um, but what else do you, is there any else you want to talk about before we get there?
Greg Vernick: [00:50:41] Um, how comfortable are you talking about you?
Eli: [00:50:45] I'm comfortable,
Greg Vernick: [00:50:46] you know?
Eli: [00:50:47] Yeah. Comfortable.
Greg Vernick: [00:50:48] I think there's a lot of, especially in the beginning of the, you know, the accident had an impact on all of us, especially like you said, that circle of people, it had [00:51:00] a tremendous impact on me. And I think when. We go to those dark places.
And I used to sit at home with Julian, you know, have a shitty night or shitty week or something poor happens. And it really, I mean, you know, there's a bad Yelp review can ruin a day, you know? And, um, you helped me in a lot of ways, sort of get over things in a different way because of what you've had to go through and what you've had to endure.
And. I just want you to know that, you know, it's had a huge impact on me and it still does. I mean, looking at you now doing this, like this is like the Eli that I know you're still fucking pushing. You're still an animal, you know, like you're in a different situation, but I'm still looking across the table from this very, like this very strong chef.
Who's got a lot of motivation and has a lot of damage still left to do. [00:52:00] And you know, that there's, you know, You know, it's just my 2 cents, you know, I hope you don't ever lose it. I just hope, I hope you keep pushing because it has an impact on me and what I do. And if it has one on me, then I think it has one on a lot of people.
Eli: [00:52:14] Well, thanks. But
Greg Vernick: [00:52:15] You know, I don't know if you hear that a lot. I don't know.
Eli: [00:52:18] Honestly, um, you know, No. I mean, you know, I think, I think a lot of times, you know, no matter like you yourself, like you don't give yourself that much credit often. I don't give myself that much credit either. Obviously I know that my story is different. I know what I went through. And if I was a friend or a fellow chef, and, you know, if the tables were turned, for example, and. You know, I would have obviously the utmost respect for somebody who's has gone through and done what I've done.
I think being in it all the time and you know, you, don't, it's hard to keep that perspective of kind [00:53:00] of what, the way that I approach life post uh, injury has, has, does have an impact and people are watching and people do take that as inspiration. And I forget that sometimes. So I appreciate you, you saying it and you know, I think the, the support that I received from from the Philadelphia community restaurant community. I still hold in very high regard.
And I use that as my own inspiration still, you know, nobody turned their back on me, nobody, you know, said, you know, I'm not, that's not my problem. You know, the community really. Embraced me and my family and they, they, they held us up for sure. No doubt. So, you know, every day is just, you know, everybody has their challenges.
Some are greater than others, some, you know, but you know, if I can be that inspiration [00:54:00] for somebody when you're having that, that moment of kind of self-loathing or feeling like, you know, you can't go another inch. I'm grateful. I can have that, that impact on people.
Greg Vernick: [00:54:11] So thank you for that. Yeah, man. You do. We do. It's it's I don't know how to say it, you know, but there's a way it puts things in perspective. Sure. And you appreciate little things so much more. Um, and, um, I don't know. I just wanted to say that.
Eli: [00:54:31] Thanks, man. Yeah. And thanks for always being there.
Greg Vernick: [00:54:33] My pleasure.
Eli: [00:54:35] All right. With that being said, Let's uh, kind of shift to this rapid fire, um, little session we got going on here.
So I meant to ask you earlier and it kind of ties into this. We're gonna count this as one question. What would be a few words that would describe you when you're, let's say 25 in the kitchen [00:55:00] I coming up, what, what would have been, what would be some, a few words that would describe you then?
Greg Vernick: [00:55:05] Intense. Competitive motivated. Jealous.
Eli: [00:55:13] Yeah. And what would be a few words that describe you today?
Greg Vernick: [00:55:19] Um, proud, emotional responsibility. Um, not comfortable, never comfortable
Eli: [00:55:32] in a good way, a bad way.
Greg Vernick: [00:55:34] Uh, both, both. Uh, you know, look, you know that, you know, this old saying, the second you get comfortable with the second you get complacent. So I, I walk into work every single day with butterflies in my stomach still, still every day. And especially now it's like, all right, what are the, Oh shits of the day. Here we go.
Eli: [00:55:52] Yeah. Cool man. If you could merge two animals to make a delicious super animal, what two would you [00:56:00] choose?
Greg Vernick: [00:56:04] And what's the definition of an animal?
Eli: [00:56:11] The animal kingdom.
Greg Vernick: [00:56:12] The animal kingdom?
Eli: [00:56:13] Could be human for all that matters.
Greg Vernick: [00:56:18] Duck and Mario Batali, uh, maybe duck in tuna. Duck in tuna, I don't know. Yeah. All right. How's that sound? Weird?
Eli: [00:56:31] I can see it working, no doubt. I like that. Uh, what is an unwritten rule in your kitchen?
Be
Greg Vernick: [00:56:37] presentable. Yeah, like we don't have a ton of rules, but clip your nails, shave, shower, wear deodorant, be presentable.
Eli: [00:56:47] Right? If you could eliminate one fast food restaurant, what would you choose?
Greg Vernick: [00:56:52] Subway.
Eli: [00:56:54] If you were arrested without explanation, what would your friends and family think you've done?
[00:57:00] Greg Vernick: [00:57:05] That's a random one. Probably speeding. Speeding and being in subordinate to the officer,
Eli: [00:57:17] Using your mouth a little bit too fast. Um, what food trend would you be happy to never see again.
Greg Vernick: [00:57:24] Those like, uh, those like universal candy shops that have everything in them like that like times square candy store.
Eli: [00:57:32] There you go. Besides your knife, the most, uh, your most valued kitchen tool.
Greg Vernick: [00:57:38] Cake tester.
Eli: [00:57:39] Yes. Cake tests are no doubt nothing is versatile for a lot of things. If people out there are wondering what the hell we're doing with the cake tester, uh, we use it too check the doneness of meat. We can either use it to feel how easily some, it goes into like a piece of fish and there's [00:58:00] no resistance, typically means it's done, or how hot the product is by touching it to our lips or the back of our hand.
Which isn't really sanitary right now, but it is what it is or the, you know, the doneness of a vegetable cooking, a lot of different things. All right. Would you rather open a typical of meat type of restaurant or a vegan restaurant
Greg Vernick: [00:58:19] Vegan.
Eli: [00:58:21] It's fun to be vegan. At what age? Do you hope to retire or do you want to retire?
Greg Vernick: [00:58:27] I don't, I don't, I don't know the answer.
Eli: [00:58:29] You don't envision yourself kinda.
Greg Vernick: [00:58:31] Yeah. I mean, that's, that's a tough question to answer at this point in time, but yeah, I don't know. You know, my father is in his seventies and he's still grinding away, so I can't really answer, I can't answer that question with him listening.
Eli: [00:58:46] Um, what's the worst injury you've seen in a kitchen, whether it was you or somebody else.
Greg Vernick: [00:58:52] Just bad, burns more than anything. I see. Burns, nasty burns are the worst. I mean, the cuts, the dings and the cuts. [00:59:00] I did see, uh, a line cook at per se seizure. Oh, and that was a heavy, that was a heavy moment. Yeah. Um, well, uh, yeah,
Eli: [00:59:11] I've seen the stuff from the witness now. All right. Last question. If you could have a meal with anyone dead or alive, who would it be?
Greg Vernick: [00:59:18] One person
Eli: [00:59:19] I'll give you more than one.
Greg Vernick: [00:59:21] I would like to have dinner with a grandparent again, I would like to have dinner with an instructor who I had in culinary school who passed away. Yeah. You know, there's a couple, so I had an instructor at Boston university.
We were in their hospitality program. He was, his name was Noel Colon. Okay. It's an Irish guy and I was his TA. Okay. And it was like my first, you know, what was, I was probably 20 years old, 21 years old. And it was my first time where I saw a chef in a different light. You know, you got to remember, this is a long time ago.
It was the first time I saw where like, this person has a career. He has a family. He [01:00:00] seems to be well compensated. He's happy. It wasn't just this like blue collar, you know, in the basement type chef. And, uh, he had a big impact on me. And he, he passed away rather quickly when I was in school and we were very close outside, you know, I'd like to reconnect with him.
Eli: [01:00:20] What'd you ever teach a culinary art course? Cool.
Greg Vernick: [01:00:23] I would love to. Yeah, I'd love to. Yeah, I, I, yeah, for sure. Would you?
Eli: [01:00:29] Um, I might be teach theory classes, you know what I mean? Um, Would be interesting I think, you know, kind of the, uh, the developing of dishes or the flavors, or, you know, the kind of the process, I don't know if I'd want to be like skills. Here's how you make a stock chicken stock, you know,
Greg Vernick: [01:00:53] See, I would want to do that. Yeah. Yeah. I just feel like it's missed now. I don't know.
Eli: [01:00:58] Yeah. All right, [01:01:00] brother. Thanks for doing this.
Greg Vernick: [01:01:01] Thank you. This was great. Yeah. Appreciate you.
Eli: [01:01:04] Appreciate ya. All right, man. All right, let's get out of here. Thank you.
Greg Vernick: [01:01:08] All right, man.
Eli: [01:01:08] Cheers. Cheers.
Thanks for listening to the CHEFradio podcast. If you'd like to support the show, please leave us a review. Wherever you listen to your podcast, it helps others find the show and allows us to continue to make great content. The CHEF Radio podcast is produced by RADIOKISMET. Post production and sound designed by Studio D Podcast Production. And I am your host Eli Kulp.